My feelings about Milkman have changed since the significant time jump on page 64. Before, we are introduced to Milkman like a victim type character. He is suffering from sexual abuse from his mother while receiving at the same time control issues from his father. Milkman doesn't quite find his own identity until he is 22 and on his own. His opinions of his mother have also changed which gives him more of a backbone for us to observe. Morrison changes the way we see Milkman so he can stop getting sympathy from the readers and instead develop into his own man and character.
My opinion of Macon Dead has changed because he seems to be more accepting of Milkman as the novel progresses. He takes the time to tell him about his childhood. This shows that he is trying to improve the relationships within his family. -Ofir Lebenthal
While reading chapter three I felt more sympathy to Milkmen’s mother, she is in an abusive relationship with Macon and she has no way out “… the fist smashed into her jaw…” (pg 67) As a reader you understand Ruth and her dad relationship from the past, it seems sexual but in reality you never hear a word about her mother, the dad (Doctor) was replacing the mother image. An example is when he kissed her goodnight. Milkmen in the beginning were annoyed at his mom for sexually abusing him in his childhood but now he realizes that Macon was abusing her, and she was not trying to hurt him. As reading chapter three you enlighten by why the characters act a certain way because of their past and Morrison writes this by having flash backs in the chapter to explain what really happened. -Shira Hartman
My feelings towards Macon Dead have started to change over the course of this chapter. He seems to become more human as he tells the story of why he hit his wife to Milkman. He also treats Milkman more like a person and less like a despised object when he begins to work in the office, adding more to his humanity.
It's hard to have one, centered view on Macon Dead for me. I think that we've seen a few very different sides to him. In the beginning, when Milkman is still young, Macon is very sovereign - he likes to be in control and is powered by his sense of "ownership" over people. Yet we also see him talking with Milkman and sharing personal experiences with him. This is a more soft side to him. In this most recent chapter, Macon hits the mother which is nothing out of the ordinary to his abusive manner. However, when Milkman hits Macon for this, Macon is the one on the ground, powerless, just struggling to get up. For me it's hard to really have one solid opinion about Macon's persona since he's been portrayed in different ways.
As I read Chapter 3, my thoughts of Milkman changed because throughout this chapter, he was changing. Milkman is no longer a little boy; he now sees who his dad truly is and decides he wants to be nothing like him. For example, he starts smoking cigarettes. Then, at age 22, he his after his father strikes his mother. Lastly, he has started to become sexually active with Hazel. In these ways, Milkman does not seem to be at all like how he used to be, and I am unsure if I like the new person he is becoming.
in reading this chapter, i came to respect Milkman a lot more than i previously had. He is by no means a perfect character, and his confusion makes that fairly clear, but at the same time he seems to have grown up in a lot of ways. For me, the root of all this is in the fact that he hits his father and begins to understand his complex feelings about his mother. After all this, the fact that he has any idea what to do and how to figure things out is somewhat impressive to me
After reading chapter three, my feelings towards two characters have greatly changed. Dr. Foster's incestual relationship with Ruth, combined with his abhorrence of fellow African-Americans have made me view him in a negative light. But unlike Dr. Foster, Guitar made a positive impression on me in this chapter. When Guitar describes how he felt when he killed the doe and the injustices that African-Americans face he showed me that he was deep. In this chapter, Guitar not only demonstrates his intelligence, but a compassion and understanding that is unmatched by any other character in the novel thus far.
In the beginning of the book I really really didn't like Macon. I thought he was just a senile jerk. But after reading chapter three I sort of feel bad for him. I guess I can sympathize with why he hates his wife so much after learning about her relationship with her father. Although i don't think he is a good person, I pity him in a way. I also see Milkman as a character now. Before, he just seemed like someone who was always in the wrong place at the wrong time. During this chapter however, we finally get to see some of his thoughts and opinions and that really brought him alive in this chapter. Finally, this chapter really reinforced my opinion on Ruth, that she was really creepy. She was, as Milkman said, just taking advantage of the men around her, whether they were her father or son it didn't matter. But I do want to know why she is like that.
Chapter three really changed my view of Macon. Before, there appeared to be no reason for his disdain for his wife. His revelation to Milkman was eye-opening. It certainly accounted for his previous actions and makes the reader pity his situation. In addition, it negatively affected my opinion of Ruth. In the beginning she seemed sweet and the unfortunate recipient of judgement. Now, it's become apparent that Ruth has some major issues and is actually much creepier than Freddie made her out to be earlier.
My views of Milkman definitely changed after reading this chapter. Until now, I didn't know how little Milkman really knew about his family. We also see how Macon wasn't always the completely dominant character he appeared to be at the beginning of the book. He had to vie for the acceptance of Ruth, and even witness Ruth lying in bed with her father "naked as a yard dog, kissing him," so we do see perhaps a small justification for his demeanor in the present time. (73) Milkman is now able to see that his parents aren't odd or mean just for the sake of being odd or mean; he realizes that they both went through very hard things as younger people. I believe this chapter shows a lot of maturing from both Macon's end, for opening up, and from Milkman, for gaining a lot of necessary knowledge to better deal with his family from then on.
My views of Macon Dead have changed a lot from the beginning of the book up until the end of chapter three. At first I thought he was cruel for marrying Ruth and then hating them all so much but after his story, it is hard to hate him. He had to put up with a lot of stuff while the Doctor was alive that would make any marriage shaky and unstable. I think Morrison has made it so that we can better relate to Macon because she makes him more human and vulnerable in this chapter. We see that he can also be knocked down just like anyone else which, up until that point, we had not seen in him. When he cowers away from his son after being hit, you almost feel bad for him even though he had just slapped his wife. Macon's story about his early marriage has completely changed my view of him. -Bianca Dempsey
Ruth is revealed to have had an even more questionable, incestuous relationship with her father, Dr. Foster, after Macon's explanation for hitting her. I have begun to understand Macon's resentment towards her and it seems that Milkman is also repulsed by her a bit. Another aspect of her character that is shown is her willingness and, it seems, her persistence to push Macon into fights. After all this time of marriage she clearly knows what angers Macon yet has said such things several times with the conversation leading to the punch being the latest. It seems of all characters Milkman and Guitar seem to have changed most and this seems likely given that age. Considering her past of being abused I am beginning to suspect that she draws these fights out purposefully to anger Macon (either to bother or get him to abuse her verbally or physically). Assumptions aside she clearly has some serious problems. Also more is learned about Macon and like the chapter before he is more humanized but still cruel and oppressive. Milkman has also changed. He has grown up and is no longer the docile boy who hardly spoke and was totally submissive to his father and loved his mother despite her strange actions. He is now disgusted with Ruth and stands up to his father physically which he seems to enjoy more than he should. He is becoming more confident and independent but i fear not for the better. He seems to have become somewhat self centered and I think he may only get worse and may become the father that he so wished to oppose.
Milkman is very reactionary. He responds to the deformity in his leg, combined with a realization of his father's negative image, by trying to differentiate himself from Macon Jr., "Milkman feared his father, respected him, but knew, because of the leg, that he could never emulate him. So he differed from him as much as he dared."(63) This is very telling of his character: he's very adaptive. But, we later learn that part of the built up hate for his father, which reaches a climax when Macon Jr. hits Ruth, is based on an unsubstantiated and unstable foundation. After Milkman's dad tells him about the profligate relationship between Ruth and Dr. Foster, again, demonstrates his mercurial attitudes. Though he had just defended his mother, and had (though now admittedly falsely) believed he loved his mother, this too is so easily transformed, "Her confirmed, eternal love of him, love that he didn't even have to earn or deserve, seemed to him natural. And now it was decomposing."(79)
The clear reason why my perception of the characters are changing is because Morrison intended for the reader to feel this. The carefully constructed opinion on Macon shifts when he explains why he hates his wife, as our original disgust with his seemingly undeserving disgust changes to shock. Our opinion on Ruth, of course, also changes when we realize why Macon hates her. The sympathy we had for her is joined by something else (assuming one believes Macon's story). Even though Ruth is still a victim of Macon's mistreatment, we also view this differently because Morrison describes how she "had learned to bring her husband to a point, not of power, but of helplessness". (64) This unsuspected "planning" makes the reader see Ruth both as more complicated and as more deliberate.
Like the other chapters of this book I have read so far, this chapter freaks me out. My feelings about the characters have changed greatly, and especially about Macon and Ruth. I first thought Macon is just a kind of an asshole who vioately tease his wife, but after I found out that Ruth has had some sexual relationship with her dad, I have started thinking Maicon as a pathetic character. Also, how Guitar acts for Dead the third changes my opinion about Guitar too.
To be perfectly honest, I hate that Morrison makes sex seem like the dirtiest and most awkward thing in the world. I don't know why she does this exactly, but perhaps she's just trying to show how messed up people can be when it comes to relationships with people. Ruth is obviously so messed up, that it brings every situation in to a grey area. For instance its hard to justify Macon's violence against his wife, but it's also hard to say he's wrong, considering the things he witnessed his wife do. Ruth has become so ugly, that I hope eventually Morisson does something to make her character beautiful, but unfortunately I think this book is not going to allow Ruth to have a happy ending, considering she may never come to peace with what she has done. -
Macon portrays himself as a very powerful man. He likes to talk himself up, wether it be in his business or life in general. He is very aggressive in the home, making us see that to his family, he is someone to be feared rather than loved. That image of him completely crashes down in this chapter. We discover that Macon's life is in fact completely out of his control. He not only feels disgusted, betrayed and ganged up on by his wife (and the Doctor), but we see that he never had any real control over her (other than physical abuse). His grasp of terror over Milkman begins to loosen as Macon tells his son the truth, showing a lapse in the emotional fortitude he so flaunts. -Lena
My opinion of Macon changed after this chapter--reading about the true backstory and the incestuous relationship between Ruth and her father alluded to throughout the first and second chapters helped to explain why Macon seems so cold and harsh. Even though he is not just in treating his wife so poorly, at least now we understand the context a bit more. This also adds another dimension to Macon's relationship with his son.
When Macon struck Ruth I originally sided with Milkman and his animosity towards his father. However, we learn that Ruth's father Dr. Foster had sexually harassed Ruth I felt more inclined to take the side of Macon instead of Milkman. It is interesting that Toni Morrison develops her characters so that your first impression usually will not be your last. -Jake Bamberger
My feelings towards the Ruth marriage are changing. At first Macon seemed like a heartless man who was hurting the family, at Ruth seemed like a martyr. Now we learned that Macon's disgust for Ruth is well founded. If my hypothetical wife was in an incestuous relationship with her father, I would be out of that marriage in an instant. That still doesn't justify beating Ruth- which leads to another change: Milkman has suddenly grown up and now knocks down his father in defense of Ruth. This whole family is becoming more more and more dysfunctional. I want to see more character development of the sisters.
I'm a little ahead, but in general I think Morrison really struggles to portray men well. Even though Milkman is the main character and the relative hero I struggle to sympathize with him. In this chapter alone Milkman is portrayed as naive as a child for not understanding the men at the barbershop and at the bar, unstable for his sudden violence against his father, unmotivated as he shows little to no interest in learning about the world around him and his families past, disrespectful to women as we learn he began sleeping around at an early age, self centered as he ignores the Emmett Till occurrences (though this trait is somewhat excusable), and stubborn and defensive when Guitar tries to help him. For one chapter that's a stunning amount of flaws, and this is the hero. He is difficult to like and nearly impossible to respect. ~Rebecca
I really think that Milkman has changed a lot as the story has gone on, beyond his simply growing up. Early on, I actually found milkman to be a very like able character amidst a sea of unlikeable characters. Now I think milkman has become cruel, cynical and self centered (and I blame macon mostly for that.) The only character at this point that I like is Guitar; everyone else is too strange or mean to be likeable. Also, on a random note, I liked how Morrison incorporated Emmett Till's death into the book- her use of history and focus on names are very interesting. ~Daniel Krane
Over the course of this chapter, Macon Jr.'s general persona is explained to some extent. I found it quite impressive that after being struck by his own son, Macon took the action to explain the reasoning behind why he hit Ruth. The rather disturbing images presented by Macon (including potential incest and necrophilia) are not reasons to be violent against a woman, but Macon's general unease and rather tormented lifestyle is explained by these traumatic experiences. It is interesting that he feels attached enough to continue living with Ruth despite these incredulous and downright weird stories about her relationship with Dr. Foster. It may not have been the best idea to explain these disturbing facts to his son, but it was certainly a change in character for Macon. -JD Nurme
Milkman has changed very rapidly already through just 3 chapters of the book. There is a huge time just from when he is 14 to when he is 22. In the beginning I enjoyed reading about the naive character, but he has transformed into a more rude character but he lacked the excuse of being young. The transformation in him that I did like however, was when he was young and feared and respected, but then transformed to be his own man with his own morals. When he punched Macon, a huge transformation in Milkman occured. -Chloe Fishman
My feelings have drastically changed towards Ruth and Macon. In the first two chapters Macon seems to have complete control over his family members. For example in the car ride to the beach town, as soon as he threatens Ruth that she will walk home if she bothers him she becomes silent. After Macon takes the punch from Milkman and comes forward to him with disturbing information about Ruth, I felt like he only has control above the surface, and cannot control anything his family does behind his back. The fact the he is not aware that Milkman was breast feeding at four years old is a proof of this. Before this chapter I believed that Ruth had a big emotional connection to her father, for example the introduction to the book that starts with, "To Daddy." Now that Macon exposed the truth about their relationship I'm completely disgusted by her and I don't thing she can draw a border between emotional attachment and sexual attachment, which is one of the reasons she was still breast-feeding when Milkman was four.
My feelings towards the characters, particularly Milkman, have changed , maybe because he does not seem to. Milk man, though he is now 31 has not shown any remarkable character developments and still seems to be living with in his own self absorbed bubble. Morrison continues to sneak in huge passages of time with out anything particularly substancial seeming to have happened to Milkman. My feelings towards the rest of the family have moved slightly away from repulsion towards sympathy.
This chapter changed the way I see many of the characters. It also made me realize that part of the reason Morrison did not give a lot of back story/explanation in the beginning could have been strategically so that readers would judge the characters too harshly, only to realize many of there judgments are not really fair. The character I most changed my opinion on was Macon. The chapter shows Macon's "[delight]" (63) when Milkman expresses the same love of good shoes and fine socks as him. I found this peculiar because it is not uncommon to like good, which is a very generic adjective, shoes, which is a common object. There is nothing unique or fatherly about this connection, yet it makes Macon feel like "his son belonged to him and not to Ruth."(63) As Macon has hinted at the inappropriate relationship between Ruth and Milkman before, this statement makes it seem as though Macon has been fighting an internal battle to win his son. It makes me sympathize with Macon, all he wants is to connect with his son and dispel any repulsive thoughts of Ruth and Milkman's relationship, yet everyone refers to his son as "Milkman," which he knows has something to do with Ruth, as opposed to Macon Jr.
Chapter 3, maybe primarily because of the time jump, truly made me look at Milkman in a different light. The last time I clearly remember a definitive action of Milkman's was when he peed on his sister in the woods. This was such a childish, boyish image I had of Milkman. But now the story jumps to the time when Macon's "son jumped up and knocked him back into the radiator" (64). Before, Milkman is a small child. He absorbs Pilate's stories and Hagar and Reba's laughter. He's there to enjoy it and he sits there in wonder, but now he makes a very violent, active choice to hit Macon. After Milkman hears the truth about his Mother (having an implied affair of sexual nature with her father) from Macon, I think Milkman truly grows from boy to man that one night at the age of 22. The truth about being breastfed by his mother seems to spark in his memory like a "dream he remembered" (77). Once he puts the pieces together, "he realized nobody was walking on the other side of the street...the other side of the street was completely empty" (78). I think this imagery symbolizes the turning point in Milkman's life where things are no longer at his boyish disposal, but are avenues, streets, paths he can take to decide his own future. What the "other side of Not Doctor street" represents completely, I don't know, but what I do know if that Milkman acknowledges another path to take for his life that goes against the culture of the people of his community. -Anna
Morrison continues to be very vague with her character descriptions which seem to be constantly changing. Initially, Macon Jr. sounds like an oppressive, abusive man, which he certainly is in some ways, but there is much more rhyme and reason to his actions than I originally thought. Ironically, he believes that harsh treatment of Ruth would be justified simply because she has deep seeded problems considering her father, whereas a truly good man would show compassion and sympathy for her. Morrison's time jumps allow for very little character development for Milkman until this chapter, because years go by without the slightest inclination that he has changed. She blends the years together seamlessly with just a sentence or two making the first 22 years of his life much the same as the first 5, or first 12. What most interested me in the chapter was the sudden realization of all the truths that were kept from him for so long. Morrison clearly wanted this chapter to be a major turning point for Milkman's life as otherwise she would have displayed these realizations over time, not over the course of a page or two. -Mike W
"Ironically, he believes that harsh treatment of Ruth would be justified simply because she has deep seeded problems considering her father, whereas a truly good man would show compassion and sympathy for her. Morrison"
In reading this chapter my feelings towards Macon Dead Jr. started to change. Before reading this chapter, I thought that Macon Dead Jr. hated Ruth for no reason. After reading the chapter, I understood why Macon Dead Jr. was the way he was and why he hit Ruth. My feelings also changed towards Ruth. Before the chapter I didn't think much about Ruth, besides her dependence on Macon Dead Jr. When I was reading the chapter, I began to feel that Ruth was crazy and that this was caused by Dr. Foster. In chapter 3, my opinion about the book also changed. Before I thought it was boring, but now with the twists that Morrison puts into the story, I have become more interested in it.
In chapter three Morrison continues to develop the characters, who seem to be changing into their alter-egos. Macon Dead Jr. initially appeared to be very rough and abusive always getting ahead of himself living in a very self-centered world. In chapter three we see a switch in which he begins to open his eyes to the world and realize that there are other problems other than not being old enough to drink at a bar, such as the issues between Ruth and Macon Dead. Previously he would get riled up about silly things, but now he has matured greatly and his anger and violence is justified by unjust outbursts, such as Macon Dead's anger on Ruth and the violence/discrimination African Americans are receiving. Ruth hasn't changed in the same ways Macon Dead Jr., but after reading ch. 3 I understood her strange behavior, just as Macon Dead Jr. has. Overall, there has been more justification of previous events/actions and answers answered in chapter 3. -Siena Fried
I think that this is the chapter where the development of Milkman has come the furthest. Milkmans troubled past finally seems to be catching up with him, from his utter determination to be the opposite of his father, and his confusion about the incedent at the dinner table. I really like how Morrison is shaping Milkman as a character. Of all of the protagonists I have encountered recenetly, I find Milkman to be the most unique. His sorrow and motivation couple together beutifully, and I think he is a great choice for a main character.
Yes, over time in Song of Solomon, my impressions of the various characters are beginning to change. At first I thought that Macon Dean was a heatless man, who never love Ruth or tried to love her, espeacially because he constantly beats her. But as you learn in the third chapter, Macon was terrorized by his selfish Father in law, has to deal with Ruth's sexual connection to her father, and has to deal with Ruth's other various sexual experiences outside of the house. In addition, Milkman has been transformed from this feeble boy to a strong man that can combat his father in a time of need, just how he did when his father punches Ruth at the dinner table. Ruth also has changed in my view from an innocent, week housewife, to a mentally distressed woman who is dealing with many father problems, and who has seemingly little faith to her husband, also trying to for some reason start his episodes of terror. Morrison accomplishes the changing perceptions of the characters by adding in small tidbits of the past lives and personalities of the characters that helps the reader to gain a more complete view of those people.
Morrison shows particular skill in making all of the characters in the book seem not realistic but real - real in a way we don't get to appreciate by looking at people around us in real life. She concentrates on both presenting their faults and justifying them. Unlike most books, I have a hard time identifying an antagonist in this story. While Milkman is undoubtedly the most major character, we are made privy to many other characters' reason, and his own analysis is not always revealed. The most major example in this chapter is Ruth. Her innocent and weak outer appearence is re-evaluated to be the projection of both a perverted and cunning personality. Before the chapter, she seemed as pehaps the most human of the family. After her story, she becomes prime evidence to this books' deceptive style.
Initially, I in a way tolerated Ruth, but as the story unfolded my opinion of her changed. She definitely has major issues with her father, the Doctor. The scene where Ruth is lying naked next to her father and sucking his finger was extremely disturbing. I think that Morrison is able to create these characters in order to show flaws of people. Milkman throughout chapter three grows up from 14 to 22 years of age. He changes with his attitude towards his mother, who he protects by punching his father, and then learns the dirty truth about his mother and his grandfather.
In the beginning, we I thought Ruth was a little weird because of her breast feeding Milkman past his infancy. For a couple of chapters, I sort of forgot about that and focused more on how bad a person Macon Jr. is. In chapter 3, I didn't start to like Macon Jr. too much more but I started to go back to thinking about Ruth's sexual strangeness. As the story progresses, it starts to feel like Milkman is alone in his family in terms of sanity. Almost everyone we've met seems to have a bad character trait, and maybe we just haven't yet seen Milkman's.
i really like the change in relationship between Macon and Milkman in chapter 3. i think macon has respect for his son and milkman is just so confused with all thats happening at this time that he doesn't have time to appreciate what his father has given him. my feelings toward macon are iffy, because he hasn't really been there much for milkman plus he beats his wife, but at the same time he employees milkman and shares with milkman everything he needs to know about his mother(ruth). my feelings for milkman also changed, i feel bad for milkman how he was sexually abused(breast fed past infancy). my feelings for ruth definitely changed a lot, her close(a little too close) relationship with her father(dr. foster) kind of creeped me out. the whole scene of dr. fosters death bed was weird, "Laying next to him. Naked as a yard dog, kissing him. him dead and white and puffy and skinny, and she had his fingers in her mouth"(73). that was definitely the weirdest thing I've read so far in the book. -Jack Corcoran
In chapter 3 Ruth character changed from the women I pittied for being married to macon dead to a weird and a little bit gross character with a messed up history and relation with her family members. When Macon dead shared his story about finding her sucking on her dead fathers fingers, lying completely naked my opinion of who is in the right and wrong shifted to just plain confused. Also as time goes on in the book I am starting to like milkman less and less, I am hoping things will turn around but right now all he seems like is a spoils self centered guy Ella macveagh
I don't know what it is about Macon Dead but I just can't seem to hate him as much as I know I'm supposed to. Of course, it's awful that he abuses his wife, but he seems like he takes a lot of criticism from the people around him that he doesn't truly deserve. For me, the real bummers in the family are the sisters. They literally don't do anything and then judge Milkman for finally stepping up against his father.
The character who has suprised me the most as I read on has been Macon Dead. In the first few chapters I imagined him as a selfish and pretty cruel person but now my feelings have changed. The thing that bothered me most was his disgust for Ruth despite the fact that they had three children together. As more is being revealed about Ruth and her history, I am starting to understand why Macon feels the way he does
This may be some sort of boyish admiration of fathers, but my impression of Macon has changed from scorn to limited respect. Beginning with his wife beating and not giving th old lady tenant a break (probably a byproduct of his harsh surroundings), it was hard to not have an omniscient scorn for him. However his undying and severe leadership of his son in chapter three was cause for admiration limited to that area. He was able to remain collected and make the tough decision and have a mature stern (albeit one way) discussion with milkman, giving him "some intelligence" (70) not as an "apology or excuse" (70) but to make him a better man even if that was the more painful road. Colby (sorry for any typos. I did this on my phone)
My feelings about Milkman have changed since the significant time jump on page 64. Before, we are introduced to Milkman like a victim type character. He is suffering from sexual abuse from his mother while receiving at the same time control issues from his father. Milkman doesn't quite find his own identity until he is 22 and on his own. His opinions of his mother have also changed which gives him more of a backbone for us to observe. Morrison changes the way we see Milkman so he can stop getting sympathy from the readers and instead develop into his own man and character.
ReplyDeleteMy opinion of Macon Dead has changed because he seems to be more accepting of Milkman as the novel progresses. He takes the time to tell him about his childhood. This shows that he is trying to improve the relationships within his family.
ReplyDelete-Ofir Lebenthal
While reading chapter three I felt more sympathy to Milkmen’s mother, she is in an abusive relationship with Macon and she has no way out “… the fist smashed into her jaw…” (pg 67) As a reader you understand Ruth and her dad relationship from the past, it seems sexual but in reality you never hear a word about her mother, the dad (Doctor) was replacing the mother image. An example is when he kissed her goodnight. Milkmen in the beginning were annoyed at his mom for sexually abusing him in his childhood but now he realizes that Macon was abusing her, and she was not trying to hurt him. As reading chapter three you enlighten by why the characters act a certain way because of their past and Morrison writes this by having flash backs in the chapter to explain what really happened.
ReplyDelete-Shira Hartman
My feelings towards Macon Dead have started to change over the course of this chapter. He seems to become more human as he tells the story of why he hit his wife to Milkman. He also treats Milkman more like a person and less like a despised object when he begins to work in the office, adding more to his humanity.
ReplyDeleteIt's hard to have one, centered view on Macon Dead for me. I think that we've seen a few very different sides to him. In the beginning, when Milkman is still young, Macon is very sovereign - he likes to be in control and is powered by his sense of "ownership" over people. Yet we also see him talking with Milkman and sharing personal experiences with him. This is a more soft side to him. In this most recent chapter, Macon hits the mother which is nothing out of the ordinary to his abusive manner. However, when Milkman hits Macon for this, Macon is the one on the ground, powerless, just struggling to get up. For me it's hard to really have one solid opinion about Macon's persona since he's been portrayed in different ways.
ReplyDeleteAs I read Chapter 3, my thoughts of Milkman changed because throughout this chapter, he was changing. Milkman is no longer a little boy; he now sees who his dad truly is and decides he wants to be nothing like him. For example, he starts smoking cigarettes. Then, at age 22, he his after his father strikes his mother. Lastly, he has started to become sexually active with Hazel. In these ways, Milkman does not seem to be at all like how he used to be, and I am unsure if I like the new person he is becoming.
ReplyDeletein reading this chapter, i came to respect Milkman a lot more than i previously had. He is by no means a perfect character, and his confusion makes that fairly clear, but at the same time he seems to have grown up in a lot of ways. For me, the root of all this is in the fact that he hits his father and begins to understand his complex feelings about his mother. After all this, the fact that he has any idea what to do and how to figure things out is somewhat impressive to me
ReplyDeleteAfter reading chapter three, my feelings towards two characters have greatly changed. Dr. Foster's incestual relationship with Ruth, combined with his abhorrence of fellow African-Americans have made me view him in a negative light. But unlike Dr. Foster, Guitar made a positive impression on me in this chapter. When Guitar describes how he felt when he killed the doe and the injustices that African-Americans face he showed me that he was deep. In this chapter, Guitar not only demonstrates his intelligence, but a compassion and understanding that is unmatched by any other character in the novel thus far.
ReplyDeleteCorey Grill
In the beginning of the book I really really didn't like Macon. I thought he was just a senile jerk. But after reading chapter three I sort of feel bad for him. I guess I can sympathize with why he hates his wife so much after learning about her relationship with her father. Although i don't think he is a good person, I pity him in a way. I also see Milkman as a character now. Before, he just seemed like someone who was always in the wrong place at the wrong time. During this chapter however, we finally get to see some of his thoughts and opinions and that really brought him alive in this chapter. Finally, this chapter really reinforced my opinion on Ruth, that she was really creepy. She was, as Milkman said, just taking advantage of the men around her, whether they were her father or son it didn't matter. But I do want to know why she is like that.
ReplyDeleteChapter three really changed my view of Macon. Before, there appeared to be no reason for his disdain for his wife. His revelation to Milkman was eye-opening. It certainly accounted for his previous actions and makes the reader pity his situation. In addition, it negatively affected my opinion of Ruth. In the beginning she seemed sweet and the unfortunate recipient of judgement. Now, it's become apparent that Ruth has some major issues and is actually much creepier than Freddie made her out to be earlier.
ReplyDeleteMy views of Milkman definitely changed after reading this chapter. Until now, I didn't know how little Milkman really knew about his family. We also see how Macon wasn't always the completely dominant character he appeared to be at the beginning of the book. He had to vie for the acceptance of Ruth, and even witness Ruth lying in bed with her father "naked as a yard dog, kissing him," so we do see perhaps a small justification for his demeanor in the present time. (73) Milkman is now able to see that his parents aren't odd or mean just for the sake of being odd or mean; he realizes that they both went through very hard things as younger people. I believe this chapter shows a lot of maturing from both Macon's end, for opening up, and from Milkman, for gaining a lot of necessary knowledge to better deal with his family from then on.
ReplyDelete-Jacob Dana
DeleteMy views of Macon Dead have changed a lot from the beginning of the book up until the end of chapter three. At first I thought he was cruel for marrying Ruth and then hating them all so much but after his story, it is hard to hate him. He had to put up with a lot of stuff while the Doctor was alive that would make any marriage shaky and unstable. I think Morrison has made it so that we can better relate to Macon because she makes him more human and vulnerable in this chapter. We see that he can also be knocked down just like anyone else which, up until that point, we had not seen in him. When he cowers away from his son after being hit, you almost feel bad for him even though he had just slapped his wife. Macon's story about his early marriage has completely changed my view of him.
ReplyDelete-Bianca Dempsey
Ruth is revealed to have had an even more questionable, incestuous relationship with her father, Dr. Foster, after Macon's explanation for hitting her. I have begun to understand Macon's resentment towards her and it seems that Milkman is also repulsed by her a bit. Another aspect of her character that is shown is her willingness and, it seems, her persistence to push Macon into fights. After all this time of marriage she clearly knows what angers Macon yet has said such things several times with the conversation leading to the punch being the latest. It seems of all characters Milkman and Guitar seem to have changed most and this seems likely given that age. Considering her past of being abused I am beginning to suspect that she draws these fights out purposefully to anger Macon (either to bother or get him to abuse her verbally or physically). Assumptions aside she clearly has some serious problems. Also more is learned about Macon and like the chapter before he is more humanized but still cruel and oppressive. Milkman has also changed. He has grown up and is no longer the docile boy who hardly spoke and was totally submissive to his father and loved his mother despite her strange actions. He is now disgusted with Ruth and stands up to his father physically which he seems to enjoy more than he should. He is becoming more confident and independent but i fear not for the better. He seems to have become somewhat self centered and I think he may only get worse and may become the father that he so wished to oppose.
ReplyDeleteMilkman is very reactionary. He responds to the deformity in his leg, combined with a realization of his father's negative image, by trying to differentiate himself from Macon Jr., "Milkman feared his father, respected him, but knew, because of the leg, that he could never emulate him. So he differed from him as much as he dared."(63) This is very telling of his character: he's very adaptive. But, we later learn that part of the built up hate for his father, which reaches a climax when Macon Jr. hits Ruth, is based on an unsubstantiated and unstable foundation. After Milkman's dad tells him about the profligate relationship between Ruth and Dr. Foster, again, demonstrates his mercurial attitudes. Though he had just defended his mother, and had (though now admittedly falsely) believed he loved his mother, this too is so easily transformed, "Her confirmed, eternal love of him, love that he didn't even have to earn or deserve, seemed to him natural. And now it was decomposing."(79)
ReplyDeleteThe clear reason why my perception of the characters are changing is because Morrison intended for the reader to feel this. The carefully constructed opinion on Macon shifts when he explains why he hates his wife, as our original disgust with his seemingly undeserving disgust changes to shock. Our opinion on Ruth, of course, also changes when we realize why Macon hates her. The sympathy we had for her is joined by something else (assuming one believes Macon's story). Even though Ruth is still a victim of Macon's mistreatment, we also view this differently because Morrison describes how she "had learned to bring her husband to a point, not of power, but of helplessness". (64) This unsuspected "planning" makes the reader see Ruth both as more complicated and as more deliberate.
ReplyDeleteLike the other chapters of this book I have read so far, this chapter freaks me out. My feelings about the characters have changed greatly, and especially about Macon and Ruth. I first thought Macon is just a kind of an asshole who vioately tease his wife, but after I found out that Ruth has had some sexual relationship with her dad, I have started thinking Maicon as a pathetic character. Also, how Guitar acts for Dead the third changes my opinion about Guitar too.
ReplyDeleteJonathan Oh
To be perfectly honest, I hate that Morrison makes sex seem like the dirtiest and most awkward thing in the world. I don't know why she does this exactly, but perhaps she's just trying to show how messed up people can be when it comes to relationships with people. Ruth is obviously so messed up, that it brings every situation in to a grey area. For instance its hard to justify Macon's violence against his wife, but it's also hard to say he's wrong, considering the things he witnessed his wife do. Ruth has become so ugly, that I hope eventually Morisson does something to make her character beautiful, but unfortunately I think this book is not going to allow Ruth to have a happy ending, considering she may never come to peace with what she has done.
ReplyDelete-
Macon portrays himself as a very powerful man. He likes to talk himself up, wether it be in his business or life in general. He is very aggressive in the home, making us see that to his family, he is someone to be feared rather than loved. That image of him completely crashes down in this chapter. We discover that Macon's life is in fact completely out of his control. He not only feels disgusted, betrayed and ganged up on by his wife (and the Doctor), but we see that he never had any real control over her (other than physical abuse). His grasp of terror over Milkman begins to loosen as Macon tells his son the truth, showing a lapse in the emotional fortitude he so flaunts.
ReplyDelete-Lena
My opinion of Macon changed after this chapter--reading about the true backstory and the incestuous relationship between Ruth and her father alluded to throughout the first and second chapters helped to explain why Macon seems so cold and harsh. Even though he is not just in treating his wife so poorly, at least now we understand the context a bit more. This also adds another dimension to Macon's relationship with his son.
ReplyDeleteWhen Macon struck Ruth I originally sided with Milkman and his animosity towards his father. However, we learn that Ruth's father Dr. Foster had sexually harassed Ruth I felt more inclined to take the side of Macon instead of Milkman. It is interesting that Toni Morrison develops her characters so that your first impression usually will not be your last.
ReplyDelete-Jake Bamberger
My feelings towards the Ruth marriage are changing. At first Macon seemed like a heartless man who was hurting the family, at Ruth seemed like a martyr. Now we learned that Macon's disgust for Ruth is well founded. If my hypothetical wife was in an incestuous relationship with her father, I would be out of that marriage in an instant. That still doesn't justify beating Ruth- which leads to another change: Milkman has suddenly grown up and now knocks down his father in defense of Ruth. This whole family is becoming more more and more dysfunctional. I want to see more character development of the sisters.
ReplyDeleteI'm a little ahead, but in general I think Morrison really struggles to portray men well. Even though Milkman is the main character and the relative hero I struggle to sympathize with him. In this chapter alone Milkman is portrayed as naive as a child for not understanding the men at the barbershop and at the bar, unstable for his sudden violence against his father, unmotivated as he shows little to no interest in learning about the world around him and his families past, disrespectful to women as we learn he began sleeping around at an early age, self centered as he ignores the Emmett Till occurrences (though this trait is somewhat excusable), and stubborn and defensive when Guitar tries to help him. For one chapter that's a stunning amount of flaws, and this is the hero. He is difficult to like and nearly impossible to respect.
ReplyDelete~Rebecca
I really think that Milkman has changed a lot as the story has gone on, beyond his simply growing up. Early on, I actually found milkman to be a very like able character amidst a sea of unlikeable characters. Now I think milkman has become cruel, cynical and self centered (and I blame macon mostly for that.) The only character at this point that I like is Guitar; everyone else is too strange or mean to be likeable. Also, on a random note, I liked how Morrison incorporated Emmett Till's death into the book- her use of history and focus on names are very interesting.
ReplyDelete~Daniel Krane
Over the course of this chapter, Macon Jr.'s general persona is explained to some extent. I found it quite impressive that after being struck by his own son, Macon took the action to explain the reasoning behind why he hit Ruth. The rather disturbing images presented by Macon (including potential incest and necrophilia) are not reasons to be violent against a woman, but Macon's general unease and rather tormented lifestyle is explained by these traumatic experiences. It is interesting that he feels attached enough to continue living with Ruth despite these incredulous and downright weird stories about her relationship with Dr. Foster. It may not have been the best idea to explain these disturbing facts to his son, but it was certainly a change in character for Macon.
ReplyDelete-JD Nurme
Milkman has changed very rapidly already through just 3 chapters of the book. There is a huge time just from when he is 14 to when he is 22. In the beginning I enjoyed reading about the naive character, but he has transformed into a more rude character but he lacked the excuse of being young. The transformation in him that I did like however, was when he was young and feared and respected, but then transformed to be his own man with his own morals. When he punched Macon, a huge transformation in Milkman occured.
ReplyDelete-Chloe Fishman
My feelings have drastically changed towards Ruth and Macon. In the first two chapters Macon seems to have complete control over his family members. For example in the car ride to the beach town, as soon as he threatens Ruth that she will walk home if she bothers him she becomes silent. After Macon takes the punch from Milkman and comes forward to him with disturbing information about Ruth, I felt like he only has control above the surface, and cannot control anything his family does behind his back. The fact the he is not aware that Milkman was breast feeding at four years old is a proof of this. Before this chapter I believed that Ruth had a big emotional connection to her father, for example the introduction to the book that starts with, "To Daddy." Now that Macon exposed the truth about their relationship I'm completely disgusted by her and I don't thing she can draw a border between emotional attachment and sexual attachment, which is one of the reasons she was still breast-feeding when Milkman was four.
ReplyDelete-Keinan
My feelings towards the characters, particularly Milkman, have changed , maybe because he does not seem to. Milk man, though he is now 31 has not shown any remarkable character developments and still seems to be living with in his own self absorbed bubble. Morrison continues to sneak in huge passages of time with out anything particularly substancial seeming to have happened to Milkman. My feelings towards the rest of the family have moved slightly away from repulsion towards sympathy.
ReplyDelete-Marie Kolarik
DeleteThis chapter changed the way I see many of the characters. It also made me realize that part of the reason Morrison did not give a lot of back story/explanation in the beginning could have been strategically so that readers would judge the characters too harshly, only to realize many of there judgments are not really fair. The character I most changed my opinion on was Macon. The chapter shows Macon's "[delight]" (63) when Milkman expresses the same love of good shoes and fine socks as him. I found this peculiar because it is not uncommon to like good, which is a very generic adjective, shoes, which is a common object. There is nothing unique or fatherly about this connection, yet it makes Macon feel like "his son belonged to him and not to Ruth."(63) As Macon has hinted at the inappropriate relationship between Ruth and Milkman before, this statement makes it seem as though Macon has been fighting an internal battle to win his son. It makes me sympathize with Macon, all he wants is to connect with his son and dispel any repulsive thoughts of Ruth and Milkman's relationship, yet everyone refers to his son as "Milkman," which he knows has something to do with Ruth, as opposed to Macon Jr.
ReplyDelete-Pema
Chapter 3, maybe primarily because of the time jump, truly made me look at Milkman in a different light. The last time I clearly remember a definitive action of Milkman's was when he peed on his sister in the woods. This was such a childish, boyish image I had of Milkman. But now the story jumps to the time when Macon's "son jumped up and knocked him back into the radiator" (64). Before, Milkman is a small child. He absorbs Pilate's stories and Hagar and Reba's laughter. He's there to enjoy it and he sits there in wonder, but now he makes a very violent, active choice to hit Macon. After Milkman hears the truth about his Mother (having an implied affair of sexual nature with her father) from Macon, I think Milkman truly grows from boy to man that one night at the age of 22. The truth about being breastfed by his mother seems to spark in his memory like a "dream he remembered" (77). Once he puts the pieces together, "he realized nobody was walking on the other side of the street...the other side of the street was completely empty" (78). I think this imagery symbolizes the turning point in Milkman's life where things are no longer at his boyish disposal, but are avenues, streets, paths he can take to decide his own future. What the "other side of Not Doctor street" represents completely, I don't know, but what I do know if that Milkman acknowledges another path to take for his life that goes against the culture of the people of his community.
ReplyDelete-Anna
Morrison continues to be very vague with her character descriptions which seem to be constantly changing. Initially, Macon Jr. sounds like an oppressive, abusive man, which he certainly is in some ways, but there is much more rhyme and reason to his actions than I originally thought. Ironically, he believes that harsh treatment of Ruth would be justified simply because she has deep seeded problems considering her father, whereas a truly good man would show compassion and sympathy for her. Morrison's time jumps allow for very little character development for Milkman until this chapter, because years go by without the slightest inclination that he has changed. She blends the years together seamlessly with just a sentence or two making the first 22 years of his life much the same as the first 5, or first 12. What most interested me in the chapter was the sudden realization of all the truths that were kept from him for so long. Morrison clearly wanted this chapter to be a major turning point for Milkman's life as otherwise she would have displayed these realizations over time, not over the course of a page or two.
ReplyDelete-Mike W
"Ironically, he believes that harsh treatment of Ruth would be justified simply because she has deep seeded problems considering her father, whereas a truly good man would show compassion and sympathy for her. Morrison"
DeleteGood point.
In reading this chapter my feelings towards Macon Dead Jr. started to change. Before reading this chapter, I thought that Macon Dead Jr. hated Ruth for no reason. After reading the chapter, I understood why Macon Dead Jr. was the way he was and why he hit Ruth. My feelings also changed towards Ruth. Before the chapter I didn't think much about Ruth, besides her dependence on Macon Dead Jr. When I was reading the chapter, I began to feel that Ruth was crazy and that this was caused by Dr. Foster. In chapter 3, my opinion about the book also changed. Before I thought it was boring, but now with the twists that Morrison puts into the story, I have become more interested in it.
ReplyDeleteIn chapter three Morrison continues to develop the characters, who seem to be changing into their alter-egos. Macon Dead Jr. initially appeared to be very rough and abusive always getting ahead of himself living in a very self-centered world. In chapter three we see a switch in which he begins to open his eyes to the world and realize that there are other problems other than not being old enough to drink at a bar, such as the issues between Ruth and Macon Dead. Previously he would get riled up about silly things, but now he has matured greatly and his anger and violence is justified by unjust outbursts, such as Macon Dead's anger on Ruth and the violence/discrimination African Americans are receiving. Ruth hasn't changed in the same ways Macon Dead Jr., but after reading ch. 3 I understood her strange behavior, just as Macon Dead Jr. has. Overall, there has been more justification of previous events/actions and answers answered in chapter 3.
ReplyDelete-Siena Fried
I think that this is the chapter where the development of Milkman has come the furthest. Milkmans troubled past finally seems to be catching up with him, from his utter determination to be the opposite of his father, and his confusion about the incedent at the dinner table. I really like how Morrison is shaping Milkman as a character. Of all of the protagonists I have encountered recenetly, I find Milkman to be the most unique. His sorrow and motivation couple together beutifully, and I think he is a great choice for a main character.
ReplyDeleteYes, over time in Song of Solomon, my impressions of the various characters are beginning to change. At first I thought that Macon Dean was a heatless man, who never love Ruth or tried to love her, espeacially because he constantly beats her. But as you learn in the third chapter, Macon was terrorized by his selfish Father in law, has to deal with Ruth's sexual connection to her father, and has to deal with Ruth's other various sexual experiences outside of the house. In addition, Milkman has been transformed from this feeble boy to a strong man that can combat his father in a time of need, just how he did when his father punches Ruth at the dinner table. Ruth also has changed in my view from an innocent, week housewife, to a mentally distressed woman who is dealing with many father problems, and who has seemingly little faith to her husband, also trying to for some reason start his episodes of terror. Morrison accomplishes the changing perceptions of the characters by adding in small tidbits of the past lives and personalities of the characters that helps the reader to gain a more complete view of those people.
ReplyDelete-Jordan Bayer
Morrison shows particular skill in making all of the characters in the book seem not realistic but real - real in a way we don't get to appreciate by looking at people around us in real life. She concentrates on both presenting their faults and justifying them. Unlike most books, I have a hard time identifying an antagonist in this story. While Milkman is undoubtedly the most major character, we are made privy to many other characters' reason, and his own analysis is not always revealed. The most major example in this chapter is Ruth. Her innocent and weak outer appearence is re-evaluated to be the projection of both a perverted and cunning personality. Before the chapter, she seemed as pehaps the most human of the family. After her story, she becomes prime evidence to this books' deceptive style.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteInitially, I in a way tolerated Ruth, but as the story unfolded my opinion of her changed. She definitely has major issues with her father, the Doctor. The scene where Ruth is lying naked next to her father and sucking his finger was extremely disturbing. I think that Morrison is able to create these characters in order to show flaws of people. Milkman throughout chapter three grows up from 14 to 22 years of age. He changes with his attitude towards his mother, who he protects by punching his father, and then learns the dirty truth about his mother and his grandfather.
ReplyDeleteIn the beginning, we I thought Ruth was a little weird because of her breast feeding Milkman past his infancy. For a couple of chapters, I sort of forgot about that and focused more on how bad a person Macon Jr. is. In chapter 3, I didn't start to like Macon Jr. too much more but I started to go back to thinking about Ruth's sexual strangeness. As the story progresses, it starts to feel like Milkman is alone in his family in terms of sanity. Almost everyone we've met seems to have a bad character trait, and maybe we just haven't yet seen Milkman's.
ReplyDeletei really like the change in relationship between Macon and Milkman in chapter 3. i think macon has respect for his son and milkman is just so confused with all thats happening at this time that he doesn't have time to appreciate what his father has given him. my feelings toward macon are iffy, because he hasn't really been there much for milkman plus he beats his wife, but at the same time he employees milkman and shares with milkman everything he needs to know about his mother(ruth). my feelings for milkman also changed, i feel bad for milkman how he was sexually abused(breast fed past infancy). my feelings for ruth definitely changed a lot, her close(a little too close) relationship with her father(dr. foster) kind of creeped me out. the whole scene of dr. fosters death bed was weird, "Laying next to him. Naked as a yard dog, kissing him. him dead and white and puffy and skinny, and she had his fingers in her mouth"(73). that was definitely the weirdest thing I've read so far in the book.
ReplyDelete-Jack Corcoran
In chapter 3 Ruth character changed from the women I pittied for being married to macon dead to a weird and a little bit gross character with a messed up history and relation with her family members. When Macon dead shared his story about finding her sucking on her dead fathers fingers, lying completely naked my opinion of who is in the right and wrong shifted to just plain confused. Also as time goes on in the book I am starting to like milkman less and less, I am hoping things will turn around but right now all he seems like is a spoils self centered guy
ReplyDeleteElla macveagh
I don't know what it is about Macon Dead but I just can't seem to hate him as much as I know I'm supposed to. Of course, it's awful that he abuses his wife, but he seems like he takes a lot of criticism from the people around him that he doesn't truly deserve. For me, the real bummers in the family are the sisters. They literally don't do anything and then judge Milkman for finally stepping up against his father.
ReplyDeleteThe character who has suprised me the most as I read on has been Macon Dead. In the first few chapters I imagined him as a selfish and pretty cruel person but now my feelings have changed. The thing that bothered me most was his disgust for Ruth despite the fact that they had three children together. As more is being revealed about Ruth and her history, I am starting to understand why Macon feels the way he does
ReplyDeleteThis may be some sort of boyish admiration of fathers, but my impression of Macon has changed from scorn to limited respect. Beginning with his wife beating and not giving th old lady tenant a break (probably a byproduct of his harsh surroundings), it was hard to not have an omniscient scorn for him. However his undying and severe leadership of his son in chapter three was cause for admiration limited to that area. He was able to remain collected and make the tough decision and have a mature stern (albeit one way) discussion with milkman, giving him "some intelligence" (70) not as an "apology or excuse" (70) but to make him a better man even if that was the more painful road.
ReplyDeleteColby (sorry for any typos. I did this on my phone)