For me, the worst part about this chapter and Guitar explaining what the Seven Days is is that Guitar refuses to listen to reason. All of Milkman's points are really good ones and his is clearly the more reasonable argument, but Guitar refuses to listen To me this was not only frustrating but it seemed really out of character. To me Guitar always seemed not only like the more reasonable of the two but also like the more moral. To see him using the fact that the people he is killing are white to justify murdering innocent people is really at odds with his character up to this point. And at the end of the chapter, when Milkman asks if Guitar would kill him, and Guitar says they don't kill negroes, instead of saying no he wouldn't seems to me to be foreshadowing. He is distancing himself from Milkman by saying that and not denying Milkman's question.
This chapter I felt was very disturbing. The thought that guitar's policy of killing innocent people for every black person that was killed isn't normal. Instead of fighting this cruelty with peace and activism, guitar wants to cause more pain. His reasoning is also curious, he says that he's doing it to even out the ratio so all the black people don't die. He thinks that he is different and in some ways superior to the ku klux klan because he doesn't enjoy the murders. His anger is very destructive and to add on to what hali said, it's foreshadowing perhaps the death of milkman because of guitar's dangerous nature.
I thought it was interesting how their roles for once seemed to reverse. Normally Guitar is very in touch with the world, his role in it, and the status of blacks in America. Normally Milkman is uninterested and passionless, even thoughtless, regarding issues of race. Now, Guitar is acting without logic or reason. He's become a relater of doctrine, not a individual in black America. Milkman, on the other hand, is interested for once and very serious. He addresses real problems, like the issue of guilt, stereotypes, and the potential future of the group. He is thinking and making connections where Guitar has given up long ago, falling back on what he's been told to say. This is the first time I've seen Milkman in a stark positive light. ~Rebecca Krane
Personally, i found this chapter to be interesting in that i really did not know how to react to it.right off the bat, i found Guitar's talk about keeping the genetic balance, murder, secrecy, and such topics creepy, but as the chapter progressed i found my self agreeing with points that each of them made.I agree with Milkman in that there is no point in killing innocent people, and that the murder does lower the 7 down to the level of the whites in some ways. that being said, i also agree with Guitar when he said that it is not necessarily the same because the 7 are killing out of love for their people.
There were several things that shocked me in this chapter. The first are Guitar's justifications for killing innocent people. When he says that the problem with the whites is in their blood, he makes himself just as bad as Hitler or any other murderer for that matter. He may claim that he is "killing for love," but killing innocent people, no matter the race or reason, is as "unnatural" as he claims the white race to be. Furthermore, Guitar's wholeness with being a killer is vert disturbing. I was also surprised by Milkman's reaction to Guitar's revelations. When Milkman seems to feel bad for Guitar for having to live a life without love, I realized that maybe there is someone in the world that he loves. Perhaps sex, cigarettes and alcohol is not all he cares about. I think Morrsion dropped this on the reader without any warning or foreshadow because she wants to isolate Milkman. Milkman grew apart from every character that was close to him, maybe now it's his turn to grow apart from Guitar.
I thought this chapter, while strange, was one of the most interesting ones so far. This was because in the past chapters i have never really recognized Guitar as a deep character, and this new insight to what his job is brings all the secrets to the surface. The Seven Days also gives the book a little more depth in which it moves from a simply odd book to one that is just complex. In a way i though the introduction of the murderers evened out the story a bit and sort of rounded everything out, oddities and all.
Well reading chapter 6, I was really interested in the “Seven Days” group and how it is similar to the concept of the KKK and how Guitar did not see the concepts of both groups being similar. Both groups are killing innocent people in different ethic groups just to get rid of them because they know they are potential threats to their ethnicity . Milkmen did not understanding “why (the group would) kill innocent people…” (pg 155). Guitar explained how it is “… necessary… it’s got to be done, to keep the ratio the same… then the world (would be) a zoo…” (pg 155).
This chapter really irritates me. I don't see any logic in Guitar's reasoning. Milkman raises all of the points that I would have, but Guitar deflects all of them with no convincing argument. And this whole thing about "maintaining the ratio"...really? You will never have the same number of people of each race, so that just seems foolish. In addition, Guitar keeps on talking about how all white people have the potential to kill a black person, so that makes them guilty. Anyone "has the potential" to kill another person. Race has nothing to do with it. Overall, I think Guitar is delusional. I don't understand how he can defend taking innocent people's lives and claim to be better than the white men who killed Emmett Till.
While I read Chapter 6, the line that stuck out to me the most were, "we don't off negroes" (161). Even Milkman, who he typically out of it, catches this and replies, "You hear what you said? Negroes. Not Milkman..." (161) Milkman understands that . What they are doing is very similar to groups such as the KKK. The KKK views blacks as "negroes", not necessarily as people. I found it interesting that this black power group was the reversal to this. Also, I thought Milkman was being the mature, calm one here for once, which was a nice change.
This chapter really surprised me. Guitar's reason for killing is not justified at all to me. While it's not unfair for the blacks to be mad for the whites killing their people, they have no right to kill back. Guitar's incentive for doing what he does and participating in the "Seven Days" just does not make any sense, and clearly does not stop the white people from killing. It's just a repetitive cycle and killing back won't stop them. I don't like how he's so adamant and won't even listen to Milkman's reasonings. Everything that MIlkman says to Guitar that goes against what the "Seven Days" does makes sense, but Guitar is too set on keeping the "order' and "balance". This makes me see Guitar differently.
I found this chapter really interesting. I enjoyed this chapter because we got to see Guitar's reasons for doing what he does and Milkman's dispute with him. I enjoy that kind of "discussion" about what is and isn't right. People say that Guitar is crazy and that he's wrong, but he's the one who always had a calm head. He never shouted or made any indication that he was crazy except for his moral standards. It was Milkman, the one considered to be the "sane" person, that was constantly losing his cool and screaming at Guitar. I think it's interesting how quickly people seem to side with Milkman. Although I suppose it's a given that it's hard to empathize with Guitar since we haven't had people we know get killed because they looked different. The debate of who is right or wrong between Guitar and Milkman, as well as the issues they represent, is more complicated than some people would like to think.
This twist was definitely one of the book's most outrageous ones. The justification for the arbitrary killings is so strange, and it's difficult to now have such a perspective on one of the main characters. Guitar also repeatedly contradicts himself; for example, when he says, "It's about trying to make a world where one day white people will think before they lynch," he does not make any sense because (as Milkman points out) the secrecy of the society makes it so that people will never have any idea that a "ratio" is being regulated. (160) I would initially have thought that the topics introduced in this chapter would make the plot swerve in an entirely new direction, so I was surprised when it was mentioned in class that the society is not mentioned much more in the story.
This chapter was very interesting to read, yet quite frustrating. Guitar's justifications for the 7 days were ridiculous and the group seems to misunderstand what they are really doing and that is really makes no sense. Guitar has an extremely close mind to the opinions of people around him as well as to looking at the facts. I was angered by Guitar, yet wanted to keep reading. -Chloe Fishman
Again, I support the idea that Morrison is simply trying to give us a reason to acknowledge Guitar as a very strange character. Up until now, he has been a rather normal character by Morrison's standards. He is politically active, and he seems to have solid and logical opinions about the issues in Milkman's life. Apparently he isn't allowed to be normal, so Morrison invented an apolitical group that seems to have no logical motivation other than "balancing" deaths between whites and blacks. The character that was the one beacon of normalcy in the story has become a murderer. Wonderful. -JD Nurme
I thought this chapter was really interesting. The once compasionate Guitar shows his lack of remorse for his actions against white people. He says that not only are they not real people but goes further to say that all white people have the capasity to become an evil murderer while black people do not therefore killing any random white man is ok. Furhermore, he insists on his group being secretive and small, showing that his actions are not for attention or even to make a point but really for him on an individual level and also alegedy on a gloabl level to keep the racial ratios in check, however that idea is questionable at best. While some of Guitar's arguments are ridiculous some make some sense. The chapter ends with Milkman and Guitar on oppositite sides with different ideologies and I think they will clash in the future sometime soon.
I think this chapter was very telling. Before now, we'd never really gotten to know Guitar for the person he really is, but now we see that he's a cold, calculating man with little regard for human life. I realize that he thinks the killings are ok because they're having the same thing done to them, but what he's doing is continuing a cycle of murder, which is not what anyone needs ever. We also are reassured during this chapter that Milkman does not have the same stance on this issue. For me, anyway, this chapter shows that while Milkman does make mistakes and appears selfish or ignorant at times, he does tend to mean well, and he is a decent person.
Just when I started thinking Guitar Baines was one of the only nice people in this book (if a tad too self-righteous), he turns out to be self-righteous to the point of insanity. Morrison seems hell-bent to make all men in this story dislikable (and she is succeeding). Guitar freaked me out with his actions, and the ending of the chapter seemed very ominous (Guitar seeming worried about Milkman- for what?). Ultimately, this chapter just added another dislikable character to Song of Solomon.
I found chapter 6 to be very interesting. I liked hearing Guitars rational for why he is in Seven Days. I also liked how Guitar says that whites are unnatural and ties it into his argument. This chapter made me realize that Guitar is a psycho, just like the rest of the characters. The most interesting thing in this chapter for me was how Guitar compared what he was doing to the Jews in WW2.
I thought it was interesting that Milkman was so concerned for the lost love or marriage that Guitar would never be able to experience, while Milkman seems to have the same path in life, though less "heroic". Of course I believe that Guitar is crazy and the whole 7 days idea is insane, but Guitar does have a purpose in life that few other characters in the book can match. He found the path less traveled, just like the one Milkman is trying to find, except in Guitar's path he has to kill little while children. All in all, i think this chapter is just one more force driving Milkman away from his weird town. Every chapter brings about a new reason for why Milkman should leave and now he is left with nobody sane to confide in or talk to because his only friend es muy loco. #spanish -Mike W
The entire concept of revenge killing is an interesting (albeit a bad thing to do). Like Jared said, it is interesting to hear Guitar's rationale for participating in the Seven Days. It is telling that Guitar is so deeply focused on and behind the idea of revenge killing that he has really convinced himself that what he is doing is right and just. For me, there was always potential for Guitar to reach this point. He was always the one concerned about racial discrimination and he finally reached the breaking point in joining this society. It will be interesting to see where his character goes from here. -Josh Slavin
I'm pretty sure that I'm not the only person who saw this coming right? Ever since Milkman and Guitar were hanging out in the Barber shop and one of the guys said "maybe she didn't like straddle shoes" and Milkman questioned it by wondering why they knew that small detail of what the victims shoes were.I believe that any character just like people are capable of anything; this includes the horrible act of taking a persons life in the name of revenge. I think that maybe later in the book Guitar will have a wake up call or something otherwise why would Toni Morrison put this piece of info in the book unless it was setting something else to happen? Marisa Najarian
I was very intrigued when Guitar told Milkman about the secret organization that he was involved in however I wasn't surprised. Throughout the book Guitar has explicitly informed us about his feelings towards white people and black oppression. The organization is also genious because the white people don't know that the organization killed the murderer on purpose so they won't go out and kill more black people. So, it is still getting some justice on white people but it doesn't result in a continued "eye for an eye".
This chapter was very interesting, especially Guitar's and Milkman's different takes on the concept of revenge killing. It's reassuring that Milkman is not sucked in to Guitar's madness and finds fault in the system of killing innocent people who had nothing to do with the crimes committed. Guitar seems to view it differently, however, and says that without these killings, the world would be a "zoo" (155) and that he is completely "reasonable" (157). It is interesting that he says that he hates doing it but does so anyway and gives him almost the appearance of a reluctant administrator of justice (though he is incredibly misguided and I don't agree at all with the Seven Days). I was intrigued by the last line of the chapter (perhaps it is foreshadowing something?): "'That's funny. I'm scared for you too.'" (161)
As I read this chapter I could definitely relate with the way Guitar felt. He is a black man in a very dark period of the US history. His belief of killing a white person when a black person is killed is understandable. The African American people were filled with anger, because they were discrimenated. This is almost brings up the code that Hamurabi created in Babylon, where he developed a punishment that stated an eye for an eye. This Seven Days group embodies that idea perfectly. I do feel angered that Guitar is ignoring the attempts of white people who are sincere to the troubles African Americans faced and try to help them. By him saying that he wants to kill anyone for the death of a black person is a bit annoying. Guitar is just definitely stubborn with his beleifs.
Perhaps Guitar's revelation of his participation in the Seven Day's is Morrison's was of creating a very violent ( quite literally) contrast between Milkman and most everybody else in his life. Guitar's unwavering conviction to this "justified" murder club, his father's passionate hatred for his mother, Hagar's love/ deathwish for Milkman. It seems that everyone except Milkman has something to live for, something that they themselves have chosen and that they themselves put everything on the line for. Milkman's life has been made for him by his family and he hasn't had much wiggle room to make decisions, or maybe he has just chosen not to. He has his tiny rebellions from his father, by hiding alchohol or sleeping with Hagar, but nothing substantial enough to diferentiate him from the shadow of his parents that he has become.
I don't like this chapter. I understand that Morrison is trying to present the dark side of Guitar - trying to expose fundamental weakness and arrogant ignorance that may ultimately bring about to his downfall. He is the black equivalent of his own perception of the "white man" - he makes no effort to differentiate between his enemies, he finds reassurance in numbers and long-standing procedure, he is cunning. Perhaps he will even kill a black man - for he seems too strongly convinced he wouldn't on page 161. But I feel like Morrison could have made her point in a more graceful fashion. The chapter is simply too long and too repetitive. Her parallels and foreshadowing for once seem too forced.
I have to admit this is the first time I have agreed with milkman when he and guitar fight. Guitar is just plain gone crazy and every argument he has to defend and justify the seven days and flimsy and weak. Milkman has the right idea and even when it is clear guitar's mind won't be changed milkman has the right idea about how being the youngest guitar can change the rules. I am not exactly clear on why guitar is scared for milkman, I guess that is something I will have to read on to find out about. Ella MacVeagh
Guitar's affiliation with the Seven Days group was not very surprising to me. From the beginning of the novel we knew that Guitar was engaged in the racial politics of the time. Guitar both saw and understood the injustices that African Americans faced. I think that the illogicality of the Seven Days group demonstrates a bigger theme; that the unprovoked attacks of whites on blacks are just as, if not more, illogical. In essence, the Seven Days group is no different from the groups of white people that go around and kill blacks for no reason other than race. So, I think Morrison intentionally makes the Seven Days group incredibly foolish to show how irrational groups of whites were at the time.
I thought the chapter was disturbing but understandable. Call me a terrible person, but Guitar actually does make a compelling argument. The only thing i don't understand is his denial of the fact that African Americans are most likely killing out of anger. Of course it's not for fun or whatever, but it's obviously out of anger and obviously to make a statement. It doesn't surprise me that Guitar is a crazy radical killer. OH but here's another thing! This whole time Milkman is shocked at Guitar for killing people when Pilate specifically mentioned she and Milkman killed a man before she moved away. tsk tsk, Milkman. You hypocrite, you!
The group that Guitar is part of, the their rational for the things they do, really reminds me of the theory of "an eye for an eye" in the way that it is that same detrimental cycle. White people will lynch, and the Days will take their own victim. Because nobody knows that it is a reaction of the lynching, there is no fear or worry to stop the whites from going out and lynching again, and again the Days will kill. Because there is no sort of publicity, nothing ever changes except for the 'numbers'. It doesn't suprise me that guitar is taking radical action, but his explanation about 'the ratio and the numbers' is really ridiculous and weak
Now this book is never disappointing me; it freaks me whichever chapter I read. The most interesting part of this book was Guitar's terrible idea about balancing people, by murdering. I would not totally disagree with Guitar's topic, especially about balancing the ratio(kinda...) However, I would totally disagree with killing people to balance the ration. That is such a horrible and unrealistic idea, which should not ever happen.
In my opinion, the interesting part of this chapter is that it solely focuses on one of the specific sub-plots/themes of the book. The disagreement between the concept of racial issues has always divided Guitar and Milkman, and i love how Morrison dedicated a whole chapter to this conflict. I also saw this chapter as foreshadowing of a larger, more violent conflict Milkman and Guitar may have down the road.
I thought it was interesting how Milkman's reaction to Guitar's stated murderous plans, although negative, was not nearly as strong as mine would have been. Also, we don't know what Guitar has actually done. The plot is still meander-y. Maybe at the end I'll look back and say "Aha! It all makes sense now! Aha!", but maybe Morrison feels like she's writing a meandering epic that doesn't need an obvious three part story. No matter what happens, it's still better than Jane Eyre.
I wouldnt necessarily say I agree with the The Seven Days, but I hear their argument and their reasoning. I was a little surprised that Guitar is affiliated with this extremely violent protesting group. I don't understand how The Seven Days group isn't a group based off of hatred and revenge. Also, do they expect their violent actions to resolve the discrimination? Because I would expect the white people to be even more tempered by the violent acts and therefor coming back with revenge on the black people. -Jack COrcoran
Guitar's story really sickened me just because I feel like the majority of people were brought up being taught that two wrongs don't make a right, but Guitar is completely ignoring this idea and going to extremes to kill innocent people just because they did it first. The whole thing just seems very immature and repulsive. He makes a legitimate argument for what he is doing but I feel like all the readers and Milkman see how completely absurd the whole idea of the Seven Days is. -Bianca Dempsey
I thought what Guitar had to say was really interesting, and I was shocked by his confession of participation in the Seven Days. Although I understand where Guitar is coming from and how his ideas of revenge make sense, I don't think what is is doing is okay or even a step in the right direction. For Guitar and his group to be killing innocent white people just as innocent black people are killed, he is doing the exact same thing as his aggressors, who he hates. My reaction was similar to Milkman's in how he disliked the nature of the Seven Days, except Milkman was more against it then I was.
I thought it was very interesting how open Guitar was about the organization he is apart of--the Seven Days Organization, and how he casually goes around killing whites, if/when a black person is killed. He also informs Milkman how the secret organization will try to recreate the murder in grave detail. I can see how frustrated it would be for an African American living in this time to have to deal with African American murders, whether you know the deceased or not. But I do not agree with Guitar's ideology, that two murder's make a right, and that unless you murder a white man when a black man is murdered, the world will become uneven. Like Ghandi said, "An eye for an eye make the whole world blind".
I read the first part of Guitar's explanation of the Seven Days, and was rather shocked by how radicalized he had become. I thought that this must be an exaggeration of some historical group like the Black Panthers (or their terrorist wing). However, when I heard (in history class) Malcolm X speak about how blacks must fight "by any and all means" for their rights, there was a shocking parallel. Both the fictional Guitar and the real-life Malcolm X were given the opportunity and the license to extra-judiciously carry out what they believed to be right. This inflated sense of responsibility was given to them by the Seven Days and the Nation of Islam respectively. All in all, this chapter was interesting in that it reflects how a segment of the black civil rights movement could and did become radicalized. -Colby
When I read this chapter, I couldn't help but notice the similarities between Guitar and Milkman and W.E.B Dubois and Booker T. Washington. In both cases, one of the men is radical, calling for immediate change and extreme action, W.E.B Dubois and Guitar, whereas the other "accepts" white supremacy, and focuses on improvement on the individual level, Milkman and Booker T. Washington. This connection was strange for me because I had previously thought of Guitar as a mentor for Milkman, someone for him to lean on and learn from. -Pema
I think that in reacting to this chapter, we have to be sensitive to the time period during which it takes place. Racism, and moreover discrimination, were very real adversities faced by African Americans. Therefore, it's not odd at all that Guitar is reacting in the way he does. Malcolm X is cited in this chapter, but other's such as Stokely Carmichael of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committeee, and Huey Newton of the Black Panthers also shared in this frustration. However, as a book written within the last half-century, I think Milkman's divergent opinion with Guitar's is admirable. Milkman says, "What about the nice ones? Some whites made sacrifices for Negroes. Real sacrifices."(156) Yet, Milkman appears to be even more thoughtful about the implications of Guitar's actions when he says, "What you're doing is crazy. And something else: it's a habit. If you do it enough, you can do it to anybody... You can off me."(161) Even though the focus of this chapter is clearly about race relations, I can't help but feel that it reveals a lot about Milkman's character: he is really considerate of the future implications of something. Admittedly, perhaps it just comes from his wealthy upbringing -- perhaps his apparent reasonableness is just a reflection of his circumstances, which are frankly much better than Guitar's.
For me, the worst part about this chapter and Guitar explaining what the Seven Days is is that Guitar refuses to listen to reason. All of Milkman's points are really good ones and his is clearly the more reasonable argument, but Guitar refuses to listen To me this was not only frustrating but it seemed really out of character. To me Guitar always seemed not only like the more reasonable of the two but also like the more moral. To see him using the fact that the people he is killing are white to justify murdering innocent people is really at odds with his character up to this point. And at the end of the chapter, when Milkman asks if Guitar would kill him, and Guitar says they don't kill negroes, instead of saying no he wouldn't seems to me to be foreshadowing. He is distancing himself from Milkman by saying that and not denying Milkman's question.
ReplyDeleteThis chapter I felt was very disturbing. The thought that guitar's policy of killing innocent people for every black person that was killed isn't normal. Instead of fighting this cruelty with peace and activism, guitar wants to cause more pain. His reasoning is also curious, he says that he's doing it to even out the ratio so all the black people don't die. He thinks that he is different and in some ways superior to the ku klux klan because he doesn't enjoy the murders. His anger is very destructive and to add on to what hali said, it's foreshadowing perhaps the death of milkman because of guitar's dangerous nature.
ReplyDelete- Julianna
I thought it was interesting how their roles for once seemed to reverse. Normally Guitar is very in touch with the world, his role in it, and the status of blacks in America. Normally Milkman is uninterested and passionless, even thoughtless, regarding issues of race. Now, Guitar is acting without logic or reason. He's become a relater of doctrine, not a individual in black America. Milkman, on the other hand, is interested for once and very serious. He addresses real problems, like the issue of guilt, stereotypes, and the potential future of the group. He is thinking and making connections where Guitar has given up long ago, falling back on what he's been told to say. This is the first time I've seen Milkman in a stark positive light.
ReplyDelete~Rebecca Krane
Personally, i found this chapter to be interesting in that i really did not know how to react to it.right off the bat, i found Guitar's talk about keeping the genetic balance, murder, secrecy, and such topics creepy, but as the chapter progressed i found my self agreeing with points that each of them made.I agree with Milkman in that there is no point in killing innocent people, and that the murder does lower the 7 down to the level of the whites in some ways. that being said, i also agree with Guitar when he said that it is not necessarily the same because the 7 are killing out of love for their people.
ReplyDeleteThere were several things that shocked me in this chapter. The first are Guitar's justifications for killing innocent people. When he says that the problem with the whites is in their blood, he makes himself just as bad as Hitler or any other murderer for that matter. He may claim that he is "killing for love," but killing innocent people, no matter the race or reason, is as "unnatural" as he claims the white race to be. Furthermore, Guitar's wholeness with being a killer is vert disturbing. I was also surprised by Milkman's reaction to Guitar's revelations. When Milkman seems to feel bad for Guitar for having to live a life without love, I realized that maybe there is someone in the world that he loves. Perhaps sex, cigarettes and alcohol is not all he cares about. I think Morrsion dropped this on the reader without any warning or foreshadow because she wants to isolate Milkman. Milkman grew apart from every character that was close to him, maybe now it's his turn to grow apart from Guitar.
ReplyDelete-Keinan
I thought this chapter, while strange, was one of the most interesting ones so far. This was because in the past chapters i have never really recognized Guitar as a deep character, and this new insight to what his job is brings all the secrets to the surface. The Seven Days also gives the book a little more depth in which it moves from a simply odd book to one that is just complex. In a way i though the introduction of the murderers evened out the story a bit and sort of rounded everything out, oddities and all.
ReplyDeleteWell reading chapter 6, I was really interested in the “Seven Days” group and how it is similar to the concept of the KKK and how Guitar did not see the concepts of both groups being similar. Both groups are killing innocent people in different ethic groups just to get rid of them because they know they are potential threats to their ethnicity . Milkmen did not understanding “why (the group would) kill innocent people…” (pg 155). Guitar explained how it is “… necessary… it’s got to be done, to keep the ratio the same… then the world (would be) a zoo…” (pg 155).
ReplyDeleteThis chapter really irritates me. I don't see any logic in Guitar's reasoning. Milkman raises all of the points that I would have, but Guitar deflects all of them with no convincing argument. And this whole thing about "maintaining the ratio"...really? You will never have the same number of people of each race, so that just seems foolish. In addition, Guitar keeps on talking about how all white people have the potential to kill a black person, so that makes them guilty. Anyone "has the potential" to kill another person. Race has nothing to do with it. Overall, I think Guitar is delusional. I don't understand how he can defend taking innocent people's lives and claim to be better than the white men who killed Emmett Till.
ReplyDeleteWhile I read Chapter 6, the line that stuck out to me the most were, "we don't off negroes" (161). Even Milkman, who he typically out of it, catches this and replies, "You hear what you said? Negroes. Not Milkman..." (161) Milkman understands that . What they are doing is very similar to groups such as the KKK. The KKK views blacks as "negroes", not necessarily as people. I found it interesting that this black power group was the reversal to this. Also, I thought Milkman was being the mature, calm one here for once, which was a nice change.
ReplyDeleteThis chapter really surprised me. Guitar's reason for killing is not justified at all to me. While it's not unfair for the blacks to be mad for the whites killing their people, they have no right to kill back. Guitar's incentive for doing what he does and participating in the "Seven Days" just does not make any sense, and clearly does not stop the white people from killing. It's just a repetitive cycle and killing back won't stop them. I don't like how he's so adamant and won't even listen to Milkman's reasonings. Everything that MIlkman says to Guitar that goes against what the "Seven Days" does makes sense, but Guitar is too set on keeping the "order' and "balance". This makes me see Guitar differently.
ReplyDeleteI found this chapter really interesting. I enjoyed this chapter because we got to see Guitar's reasons for doing what he does and Milkman's dispute with him. I enjoy that kind of "discussion" about what is and isn't right. People say that Guitar is crazy and that he's wrong, but he's the one who always had a calm head. He never shouted or made any indication that he was crazy except for his moral standards. It was Milkman, the one considered to be the "sane" person, that was constantly losing his cool and screaming at Guitar. I think it's interesting how quickly people seem to side with Milkman. Although I suppose it's a given that it's hard to empathize with Guitar since we haven't had people we know get killed because they looked different. The debate of who is right or wrong between Guitar and Milkman, as well as the issues they represent, is more complicated than some people would like to think.
ReplyDelete-Sam P.
This twist was definitely one of the book's most outrageous ones. The justification for the arbitrary killings is so strange, and it's difficult to now have such a perspective on one of the main characters. Guitar also repeatedly contradicts himself; for example, when he says, "It's about trying to make a world where one day white people will think before they lynch," he does not make any sense because (as Milkman points out) the secrecy of the society makes it so that people will never have any idea that a "ratio" is being regulated. (160) I would initially have thought that the topics introduced in this chapter would make the plot swerve in an entirely new direction, so I was surprised when it was mentioned in class that the society is not mentioned much more in the story.
ReplyDeleteThis chapter was very interesting to read, yet quite frustrating. Guitar's justifications for the 7 days were ridiculous and the group seems to misunderstand what they are really doing and that is really makes no sense. Guitar has an extremely close mind to the opinions of people around him as well as to looking at the facts. I was angered by Guitar, yet wanted to keep reading.
ReplyDelete-Chloe Fishman
Again, I support the idea that Morrison is simply trying to give us a reason to acknowledge Guitar as a very strange character. Up until now, he has been a rather normal character by Morrison's standards. He is politically active, and he seems to have solid and logical opinions about the issues in Milkman's life. Apparently he isn't allowed to be normal, so Morrison invented an apolitical group that seems to have no logical motivation other than "balancing" deaths between whites and blacks. The character that was the one beacon of normalcy in the story has become a murderer. Wonderful.
ReplyDelete-JD Nurme
I thought this chapter was really interesting. The once compasionate Guitar shows his lack of remorse for his actions against white people. He says that not only are they not real people but goes further to say that all white people have the capasity to become an evil murderer while black people do not therefore killing any random white man is ok. Furhermore, he insists on his group being secretive and small, showing that his actions are not for attention or even to make a point but really for him on an individual level and also alegedy on a gloabl level to keep the racial ratios in check, however that idea is questionable at best. While some of Guitar's arguments are ridiculous some make some sense. The chapter ends with Milkman and Guitar on oppositite sides with different ideologies and I think they will clash in the future sometime soon.
ReplyDeleteI think this chapter was very telling. Before now, we'd never really gotten to know Guitar for the person he really is, but now we see that he's a cold, calculating man with little regard for human life. I realize that he thinks the killings are ok because they're having the same thing done to them, but what he's doing is continuing a cycle of murder, which is not what anyone needs ever. We also are reassured during this chapter that Milkman does not have the same stance on this issue. For me, anyway, this chapter shows that while Milkman does make mistakes and appears selfish or ignorant at times, he does tend to mean well, and he is a decent person.
ReplyDeleteJust when I started thinking Guitar Baines was one of the only nice people in this book (if a tad too self-righteous), he turns out to be self-righteous to the point of insanity. Morrison seems hell-bent to make all men in this story dislikable (and she is succeeding). Guitar freaked me out with his actions, and the ending of the chapter seemed very ominous (Guitar seeming worried about Milkman- for what?). Ultimately, this chapter just added another dislikable character to Song of Solomon.
ReplyDeleteI found chapter 6 to be very interesting. I liked hearing Guitars rational for why he is in Seven Days. I also liked how Guitar says that whites are unnatural and ties it into his argument. This chapter made me realize that Guitar is a psycho, just like the rest of the characters. The most interesting thing in this chapter for me was how Guitar compared what he was doing to the Jews in WW2.
ReplyDeleteI thought it was interesting that Milkman was so concerned for the lost love or marriage that Guitar would never be able to experience, while Milkman seems to have the same path in life, though less "heroic". Of course I believe that Guitar is crazy and the whole 7 days idea is insane, but Guitar does have a purpose in life that few other characters in the book can match. He found the path less traveled, just like the one Milkman is trying to find, except in Guitar's path he has to kill little while children. All in all, i think this chapter is just one more force driving Milkman away from his weird town. Every chapter brings about a new reason for why Milkman should leave and now he is left with nobody sane to confide in or talk to because his only friend es muy loco. #spanish
ReplyDelete-Mike W
The entire concept of revenge killing is an interesting (albeit a bad thing to do). Like Jared said, it is interesting to hear Guitar's rationale for participating in the Seven Days. It is telling that Guitar is so deeply focused on and behind the idea of revenge killing that he has really convinced himself that what he is doing is right and just. For me, there was always potential for Guitar to reach this point. He was always the one concerned about racial discrimination and he finally reached the breaking point in joining this society. It will be interesting to see where his character goes from here.
ReplyDelete-Josh Slavin
I'm pretty sure that I'm not the only person who saw this coming right? Ever since Milkman and Guitar were hanging out in the Barber shop and one of the guys said "maybe she didn't like straddle shoes" and Milkman questioned it by wondering why they knew that small detail of what the victims shoes were.I believe that any character just like people are capable of anything; this includes the horrible act of taking a persons life in the name of revenge. I think that maybe later in the book Guitar will have a wake up call or something otherwise why would Toni Morrison put this piece of info in the book unless it was setting something else to happen?
ReplyDeleteMarisa Najarian
I was very intrigued when Guitar told Milkman about the secret organization that he was involved in however I wasn't surprised. Throughout the book Guitar has explicitly informed us about his feelings towards white people and black oppression. The organization is also genious because the white people don't know that the organization killed the murderer on purpose so they won't go out and kill more black people. So, it is still getting some justice on white people but it doesn't result in a continued "eye for an eye".
ReplyDeleteThis chapter was very interesting, especially Guitar's and Milkman's different takes on the concept of revenge killing. It's reassuring that Milkman is not sucked in to Guitar's madness and finds fault in the system of killing innocent people who had nothing to do with the crimes committed. Guitar seems to view it differently, however, and says that without these killings, the world would be a "zoo" (155) and that he is completely "reasonable" (157). It is interesting that he says that he hates doing it but does so anyway and gives him almost the appearance of a reluctant administrator of justice (though he is incredibly misguided and I don't agree at all with the Seven Days). I was intrigued by the last line of the chapter (perhaps it is foreshadowing something?): "'That's funny. I'm scared for you too.'" (161)
ReplyDeleteAs I read this chapter I could definitely relate with the way Guitar felt. He is a black man in a very dark period of the US history. His belief of killing a white person when a black person is killed is understandable. The African American people were filled with anger, because they were discrimenated. This is almost brings up the code that Hamurabi created in Babylon, where he developed a punishment that stated an eye for an eye. This Seven Days group embodies that idea perfectly. I do feel angered that Guitar is ignoring the attempts of white people who are sincere to the troubles African Americans faced and try to help them. By him saying that he wants to kill anyone for the death of a black person is a bit annoying. Guitar is just definitely stubborn with his beleifs.
ReplyDelete-AYAN
Perhaps Guitar's revelation of his participation in the Seven Day's is Morrison's was of creating a very violent ( quite literally) contrast between Milkman and most everybody else in his life. Guitar's unwavering conviction to this "justified" murder club, his father's passionate hatred for his mother, Hagar's love/ deathwish for Milkman. It seems that everyone except Milkman has something to live for, something that they themselves have chosen and that they themselves put everything on the line for. Milkman's life has been made for him by his family and he hasn't had much wiggle room to make decisions, or maybe he has just chosen not to. He has his tiny rebellions from his father, by hiding alchohol or sleeping with Hagar, but nothing substantial enough to diferentiate him from the shadow of his parents that he has become.
ReplyDelete-Lena
I don't like this chapter. I understand that Morrison is trying to present the dark side of Guitar - trying to expose fundamental weakness and arrogant ignorance that may ultimately bring about to his downfall. He is the black equivalent of his own perception of the "white man" - he makes no effort to differentiate between his enemies, he finds reassurance in numbers and long-standing procedure, he is cunning. Perhaps he will even kill a black man - for he seems too strongly convinced he wouldn't on page 161. But I feel like Morrison could have made her point in a more graceful fashion. The chapter is simply too long and too repetitive. Her parallels and foreshadowing for once seem too forced.
ReplyDeleteI have to admit this is the first time I have agreed with milkman when he and guitar fight. Guitar is just plain gone crazy and every argument he has to defend and justify the seven days and flimsy and weak. Milkman has the right idea and even when it is clear guitar's mind won't be changed milkman has the right idea about how being the youngest guitar can change the rules. I am not exactly clear on why guitar is scared for milkman, I guess that is something I will have to read on to find out about.
ReplyDeleteElla MacVeagh
Guitar's affiliation with the Seven Days group was not very surprising to me. From the beginning of the novel we knew that Guitar was engaged in the racial politics of the time. Guitar both saw and understood the injustices that African Americans faced. I think that the illogicality of the Seven Days group demonstrates a bigger theme; that the unprovoked attacks of whites on blacks are just as, if not more, illogical. In essence, the Seven Days group is no different from the groups of white people that go around and kill blacks for no reason other than race. So, I think Morrison intentionally makes the Seven Days group incredibly foolish to show how irrational groups of whites were at the time.
ReplyDeleteCorey Grill
I thought the chapter was disturbing but understandable. Call me a terrible person, but Guitar actually does make a compelling argument. The only thing i don't understand is his denial of the fact that African Americans are most likely killing out of anger. Of course it's not for fun or whatever, but it's obviously out of anger and obviously to make a statement. It doesn't surprise me that Guitar is a crazy radical killer.
ReplyDeleteOH but here's another thing! This whole time Milkman is shocked at Guitar for killing people when Pilate specifically mentioned she and Milkman killed a man before she moved away. tsk tsk, Milkman. You hypocrite, you!
The group that Guitar is part of, the their rational for the things they do, really reminds me of the theory of "an eye for an eye" in the way that it is that same detrimental cycle. White people will lynch, and the Days will take their own victim. Because nobody knows that it is a reaction of the lynching, there is no fear or worry to stop the whites from going out and lynching again, and again the Days will kill. Because there is no sort of publicity, nothing ever changes except for the 'numbers'. It doesn't suprise me that guitar is taking radical action, but his explanation about 'the ratio and the numbers' is really ridiculous and weak
ReplyDelete--Gabby St Pierre
Now this book is never disappointing me; it freaks me whichever chapter I read. The most interesting part of this book was Guitar's terrible idea about balancing people, by murdering. I would not totally disagree with Guitar's topic, especially about balancing the ratio(kinda...) However, I would totally disagree with killing people to balance the ration. That is such a horrible and unrealistic idea, which should not ever happen.
ReplyDeleteJonathan Oh
In my opinion, the interesting part of this chapter is that it solely focuses on one of the specific sub-plots/themes of the book. The disagreement between the concept of racial issues has always divided Guitar and Milkman, and i love how Morrison dedicated a whole chapter to this conflict. I also saw this chapter as foreshadowing of a larger, more violent conflict Milkman and Guitar may have down the road.
ReplyDeleteI thought it was interesting how Milkman's reaction to Guitar's stated murderous plans, although negative, was not nearly as strong as mine would have been. Also, we don't know what Guitar has actually done. The plot is still meander-y. Maybe at the end I'll look back and say "Aha! It all makes sense now! Aha!", but maybe Morrison feels like she's writing a meandering epic that doesn't need an obvious three part story. No matter what happens, it's still better than Jane Eyre.
ReplyDeleteI wouldnt necessarily say I agree with the The Seven Days, but I hear their argument and their reasoning. I was a little surprised that Guitar is affiliated with this extremely violent protesting group. I don't understand how The Seven Days group isn't a group based off of hatred and revenge. Also, do they expect their violent actions to resolve the discrimination? Because I would expect the white people to be even more tempered by the violent acts and therefor coming back with revenge on the black people.
ReplyDelete-Jack COrcoran
Guitar's story really sickened me just because I feel like the majority of people were brought up being taught that two wrongs don't make a right, but Guitar is completely ignoring this idea and going to extremes to kill innocent people just because they did it first. The whole thing just seems very immature and repulsive. He makes a legitimate argument for what he is doing but I feel like all the readers and Milkman see how completely absurd the whole idea of the Seven Days is.
ReplyDelete-Bianca Dempsey
I thought what Guitar had to say was really interesting, and I was shocked by his confession of participation in the Seven Days. Although I understand where Guitar is coming from and how his ideas of revenge make sense, I don't think what is is doing is okay or even a step in the right direction. For Guitar and his group to be killing innocent white people just as innocent black people are killed, he is doing the exact same thing as his aggressors, who he hates. My reaction was similar to Milkman's in how he disliked the nature of the Seven Days, except Milkman was more against it then I was.
ReplyDelete-Brandon Martone
I thought it was very interesting how open Guitar was about the organization he is apart of--the Seven Days Organization, and how he casually goes around killing whites, if/when a black person is killed. He also informs Milkman how the secret organization will try to recreate the murder in grave detail. I can see how frustrated it would be for an African American living in this time to have to deal with African American murders, whether you know the deceased or not. But I do not agree with Guitar's ideology, that two murder's make a right, and that unless you murder a white man when a black man is murdered, the world will become uneven. Like Ghandi said, "An eye for an eye make the whole world blind".
ReplyDelete-Jordan Bayer
I read the first part of Guitar's explanation of the Seven Days, and was rather shocked by how radicalized he had become. I thought that this must be an exaggeration of some historical group like the Black Panthers (or their terrorist wing). However, when I heard (in history class) Malcolm X speak about how blacks must fight "by any and all means" for their rights, there was a shocking parallel. Both the fictional Guitar and the real-life Malcolm X were given the opportunity and the license to extra-judiciously carry out what they believed to be right. This inflated sense of responsibility was given to them by the Seven Days and the Nation of Islam respectively. All in all, this chapter was interesting in that it reflects how a segment of the black civil rights movement could and did become radicalized.
ReplyDelete-Colby
When I read this chapter, I couldn't help but notice the similarities between Guitar and Milkman and W.E.B Dubois and Booker T. Washington. In both cases, one of the men is radical, calling for immediate change and extreme action, W.E.B Dubois and Guitar, whereas the other "accepts" white supremacy, and focuses on improvement on the individual level, Milkman and Booker T. Washington. This connection was strange for me because I had previously thought of Guitar as a mentor for Milkman, someone for him to lean on and learn from.
ReplyDelete-Pema
I think that in reacting to this chapter, we have to be sensitive to the time period during which it takes place. Racism, and moreover discrimination, were very real adversities faced by African Americans. Therefore, it's not odd at all that Guitar is reacting in the way he does. Malcolm X is cited in this chapter, but other's such as Stokely Carmichael of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committeee, and Huey Newton of the Black Panthers also shared in this frustration. However, as a book written within the last half-century, I think Milkman's divergent opinion with Guitar's is admirable. Milkman says, "What about the nice ones? Some whites made sacrifices for Negroes. Real sacrifices."(156) Yet, Milkman appears to be even more thoughtful about the implications of Guitar's actions when he says, "What you're doing is crazy. And something else: it's a habit. If you do it enough, you can do it to anybody... You can off me."(161) Even though the focus of this chapter is clearly about race relations, I can't help but feel that it reveals a lot about Milkman's character: he is really considerate of the future implications of something. Admittedly, perhaps it just comes from his wealthy upbringing -- perhaps his apparent reasonableness is just a reflection of his circumstances, which are frankly much better than Guitar's.
ReplyDelete