I have a terrible cold and was in bed for about 15 hours straight; I apologize for not getting this up earlier.
Chapter 9 is in a way, all about the women. In what way does this chapter set up Milkman's journey down south in search of the find the gold, his family history, and his own identity?
Chapter 9 is really interesting how everything connects up all in the same point.
ReplyDeleteI feel this chapter is where Milkmen realize that he has to get away from his hometown and just go and find himself and his family history. Milkmen in the chapter realized that Pilate did not take the gold but the skeletons of the old guy Macon killed in the cave. Pilate took the skeletons to her self because she heard her father say to her “… You just can’t fly and leave a body…you are responsible for it…” (pg 208). Other thing that Milkmen realized that Lena was telling the truth when she said that her “girlhood was spent like a found nickel on you” (pg 215). Lena explained how Milkmen did not do anything and she and her sisters did everything they could to take care of him. From everyone shouting and stating their thoughts in this chapter Milkmen realized that he needs to find his thoughts too and go to the south and find himself.
Chapter 9 sets up Milkman's journey because it finally gives him a reason to leave. By beating up his father, I believe he felt he was protecting his family. After Lena's speech, he realizes she is right and was actually not doing anything of the sort. With his family angry at him, and not finding the gold, Milkman has an excuse to go. He finds out something new about his family every chapter and now wants to figure out his true identity. After this quarrel, I think now is as good a time as any to make his journey.
ReplyDeleteI think this was a really interesting chapter especially because we learned more about Corinthians and Lena. For the whole book, all we really knew about them was that they made roses and seemed to enjoy being hated by their father. Interestingly, that was all that Milkman seemed to know about them as well. When Corinthians started seeing Porter, Milkman didn't know anything about why, or how she felt about it and so told their dad. He didn't think about the fact that Corinthians was 40 and could do what she wanted. The same is true of Lena, for the first time Milkman and the reader see her as a character with feelings and thoughts of her own, not just as a rose-making older sister. We also see Milkman in a much more negative light. For most of the book he wasn't a really well-developed character, despite being the main character, but now that we learn more about him, he's becoming someone pretty unlikeable. He's turning out to be a lot like his father, like Lena said.
ReplyDeleteChapter nine was my favorite chapter so far and I think it sets up Milkman's journey to the South because it gives him so much information and so much to question. He has received so many different stories from his mother, father, and Pilate that he doesn't really know what to believe at this point and I think all the uncertainty he feels and the need to be independent for once in his life is going to drive him even more so to leave and go down South. Lena's speech at the end also gives him a lot to think about himself because she tells him exactly how her, Ruth, and Corinthians see him. At the beginning of the story, Milkman never wanted to be like his father and to hear from his sister that he is exactly like his father probably makes him question a lot about himself, which will also drive him to discover himself down South.
ReplyDelete-Bianca
Before Lena's speech to Milkman, I think Milkman was at the edge - he was ready to leave and be independent, but never really could. There was no final "push" to get him started, but what Lena says to Milkman really hits home and makes him realize things that he had never even thought about before. By Lena relating Milkman's actions and his fathers, he really understands how patronizing he acted towards his sisters and mother. I also think that Milkman's shame is what leads him to go south in search of the gold. He isn't after what the gold could offer him, monetarily, but more as reparation for betraying Pilate, the woman who had "cooked him his first perfect egg" (209) He doesn't want to become the man who his father was, and is going down south to try to find a different path, and to find himself and who he really is.
ReplyDeleteI think that Magdalene's criticism of Milkman at the very end of chapter nine clearly sets up Milkman's journey down South in search of his own identity. Magdalene makes it clear to Milkman that he is no different from his father; he has been taking advantage of his sisters and mother and Magdalene will not stand for it any longer. By the end of Magdalene's rant Milkman knows that he is in the wrong and says nothing. This strengthens our belief that Milkman's journey down South is fueled by a desire for a new identity, and for Milkman finding gold seems to be the only way to achieve that.
ReplyDeleteCorey Grill
I believe that chapter 9 sets up Milkman to leave to go to the south because he finally sees that he is not the "protector" of the family. When he first hit his father, he seemed to believe that the only reason he was staying was to protect his mother. At the end of the chapter where he has a long conversation with Lena, he sees that he is in fact, not needed, when Lena says how she tried to protect their mother, and as a result missed out on going to college. Milkman sees that if he tries to protect his mother for the rest of his life then he will accomplish nothing, and so he heads south.
ReplyDeleteFirst, I'm just going to say that I am really happy that we finally get to see an evolution of Corinthians, and Lena. For so long they seemed like these weird characters of very little substance, who simply lived in the story. Now they have been 'explained' a little bit and it makes the story much fuller. I think that Chapter 9 is setting up Milkman's next part of the story, because in this chapter everything else seems to have grown away from him. Guitar has changed and is no longer close to him, he lost Hagar, he ruined corinthian's relationship, lena hates him, and he is turning into Macon. I think this chapter signals that Guitar needs a drastic change in his life, one that he can only find by escaping to the south.
ReplyDelete-- Gabby St Pierre
I agree with Gabby. This chapter really gave us the first insight into who these women turned out to be. They're finally able to convey to Milkman that he has not become the man they'd hoped he'd be. Instead, he's "a sad, pitiful, stupid, selfish, hateful man," in their eyes, and they want him out for good. (216) These sentiments coupled with the troubling discovery of what was really in the bag at Pilate's house have shown Milkman that he needs a bit of a fresh start, or a change at the very least. His life had become somewhat stagnant, and he needed someone besides himself to say it. Him leaving makes perfect sense after what's just happened.
ReplyDeleteI think this chapter gives the reader a much better understanding of Milkman, and kind of clarifies what we were starting to believe. From the moment Milkman hit his father, the reader got the sense that he was following in his dads footsteps, and resorting to violence to end a dispute. Lena's verbal attack toward Milkman puts milkmans life into perspective. He now realizes his similarities to his father, of whom he wants nothing to do with. Milkman embarks on his journey down south in order to find himself, and sentimentaly rethink his life.
ReplyDelete-Chris
I think that this chapter gives us a greater sense of how Milkman thinks. We have always understood to some degree that he never really separated from his father, but with his exposing Corinthians, we can see that he has come to have a similar brand of interaction with women to that of his father. at the same time, his thoughts about Pilate and the respect that he seems to secretly have for her isolates him from his father in a sense. i think this split identity, as well as the desire for him to leave that Lena expresses, most directly point to his going down south.
ReplyDeleteHearing Magdalene rant at Milkman we get to see his life from someone else's perspective. We see what it's like to live with him for a lifetime, not just 200 pages. We follow Milkman for almost the entire book, and even then we miss some things, so we can't really form unbiased opinions since we live through him. But with Magdalen we get to see what Milkman was like as a baby. And we even learn some things about their father. We knew that he wasn't the best person but now we have that idea of showing off. It's not unnatural to show off things that you're proud of, but he seems to take it a bit past that line. It's nice to finally see things through a woman's eyes.
ReplyDelete-Sam P
I agree with Gabby and Jacob that Milkman has lost some of his seemingly strong connections to other people. When even Lena breaks away from him, he doesn't have much to live and stay for. It made Milkman realize that he has similarities to his father and led him to embark on a southern journey to try to find himself. He by no means wants to be like his father and hopes that by getting away from him he can distance his character from him.
ReplyDelete-Josh Slavin
I thought it was really interesting to see Milkman through his sister's eyes. Earlier, we remarked how strange it was that the sisters glared at Milkman when he hit his father. I had assumed this was due to the sisters' revere of their father and not out of disdain for Milkman's quest for power. This view of Milkman reminds me of our discussion of the passage in which Macon talks with Milkman right after he gets hit. We noted that Macon seemed to be struggling against Milkman to regain his power. This idea certaintly seems accurate now, for Lena's rant raised some very good points.
ReplyDeleteThe women serve as a light for Milkman. They reveal what's been hidden from him and the gaps in his life. Corinthians and Magdalene reveal how empty Milkman is and how he has fallen short. He's been given time, resources, everything necessary, and he is still a disappointment to them. Their disappointment is in how he is so similar to Macon, with the meanness and power grabbing, without the ambition that makes Macon at all relatable. He is missing his calling as well as his past. He doesn't know who he is in terms of his family but also he doesn't remember any of the stories of his childhood. His own life is a mystery to him.
ReplyDeletePilate plays a lesser role in this chapter. What she illuminates is that the gold remains. His emptiness resulting from the failed robbery and the humiliation of the men's failure leads to his desire to overcome this humiliation by finding the gold.
~Rebecca Krane
(Handwritten before class but there was a sub)
ReplyDeleteThis chapter sets Milkman up to go down south to discover his family history because he is essentially left with nothing else in the life that he currently had. His curiosity about Pilate - and the reader's developing curiosity - as her switch from being "tall" to her "Aunt Jemima act" and back again takes place is only supplementary to the fact that she helped him even after he had broken into her house. (209) the poet that caused such a divide between Pilate and Macon, two figures with starkly different roles in his life, suddenly becomes a key thing to Milkman's own life. Additionally, Milkman is essentially expelled from his reluctant residence in his own house when Lena threatens him, and although his reason for wanting Corinthians to stay away from Porter is of course understandable, Lena's comment about Milkman not truly caring that much for them is true. Milkman knows this, and Guitar's new opposition to Pilate removes Guitar from the previous "haven"-like role he inconsistently held in Milkman's life. Pilate has become the one person who Milkman associates with care.
Everyone in this book sucks except for Pilate. I hope Milkman goes through some serious changes down south, or just dies. I wonder Morrison didn't give readers a little more sugar in the character department. Spending time with this cast of anti-role models like eating broccoli sprouts- not boring, but not particularly rewarding. The most interesting plot line to me so far is Guitar and his potential murderous escapades.
ReplyDeleteThis is a quite entertaining entry
DeleteElla
Although this chapter was all about the ladies, it still seemed to have the greatest effect on Milkman and always seemed to relate back to him. Even the crazy sidetrack of Corinthian's ends up reverting back to milkman when he turns her into her father and suddenly starts to care about the women in his life. I think Lena's speach was very accurate, and it was a wake up call milkman needed when he tried so hard his life to be different than his farther (besides the shoes he wears). I think milkmans trip down south will do good things for him, he needs to get away from all the craziness of his family and find somethig that he actually has a passion for, because at the moment it seems as though nothing is really too important to him, not even his life.
ReplyDeleteElla MacVeagh
I feel like this chapter mostly sets up Milkman's journey to find his own identity, and his journey to find the gold. The end of the chapter made the largest impression on me because it depicted a symbolic change in Milkman. By evaluating himself in the mirror for the second time in a much different light then the first, he noticed his legs were of even length, felt very shameful, and came to realize that his best friend was a murderer. To me, his legs becoming the same length symbolizes the close proximity of Milkman finding his independence because it sets him apart from his father and shows a positive change toward finally growing up. By being independent, he can then go out on his own (probably without Guitar due to the realization that he is a killer), and find the hidden gold.
ReplyDelete-Brandon Martone
Through the women, Milkman is able to realize what his life lacks and that he must go deeper into his past. Although the chapter makes it seem to be more about the women, in reality it is about Milkman and helps lead up to his journey. He is able to realize that his identity is not completed and he has had difficulty finding it because he lacks the knowledge about his past. He also hasn't really been given the opportunity to do something to help form his identity as an adult. This chapter helps set up why Milkman needs to make the journey to the south.
ReplyDelete-Chloe Fishman
In chapter 9, the female characters become more developed. Lena is an example of this because she finally stands up to Milkman, after years of being "peed on." (214) This chapter sets up Milkman's journey down South because everyone hates him and the only strong relationship he has left is with Macon Junior. Milkman is even mad with himself for listening to Macon Jr. and stealing the green tarp. I think Milkman has wanted to leave for a while, and after this chapter it was the best time to do so.
ReplyDeleteWell, the gold is clearly set up in the attempts to steal it, Pilate explaining more of the story, and Macon saying that if Pilate didn't have it it must still be there. In terms of Milkman finding his own identity, the last five or so pages really sets that up- for once in his life, Milkman feels remorse and sorry for his actions. Milkman shows his humanity in finally realizing how horrible he has been with Pilate, the one person (maybe besides Ruth) who has always cared about him. In terms of the rest of the family history, this chapter is also very important in that it includes all of the members of the Dead family, and gives us our first real insight into First Corinthians and Magalene called Lena, who are finally also becoming more of real people- that is, until Milkman gets Corinthian's start ruined. And Milkman is set up to go South, because he has wanted to leave, he realizes how messed up his family is, he is tired of seeing Guitar and his friends be corrupted in the Seven Days, and Magdalene called Lena wants him out, ultimately perfectly setting up his journey away from home to the South.
ReplyDeleteMilkman has pretty much, throughout the previous chapters of the book, but highlighted in chapter 9, hurt his relationship with almost everyone he is close too. He has been mixed up in many confrontations with his father, Macon Jr. But more importantly in chapter 9, he single handedly ruins First Corinthians chance at a new life and her own freedom. He relays to his father that the man that First Corinthians is involved with is in the Seven Days organization, and therefore Macon Jr. instructs First Corinthians to end it with the man, furthermore, Henry Porter, the man who has a relationship with First Corinthians is evicted from Macon Jr.'s apartment and the father finally forces First Corinthians to quit her job. Milkman single handedly ruins anything and everything good that First Corinthians had going for her. Finally, at the end of the chapter, Lena reminds MIlkman that he once urinated on her when they were children, and has been theoretically urinating on people his whole life. MIlkman has burned almost all of his bridges with his father, both of his sisters, and a little bit with guitar, which helps to set up his journey down South in search of the gold.
ReplyDelete-Jordan Bayer
So throughout the Chapter 9, we are learning more and more about Lena and Corinthians. Milkman is mentioned only during the early morning discussion with his dad about he failed attempt of getting the gold that Pilate had. Yet, Milkman is also mentioned when Lena scolds him for ruining Corinthians life and just becoming the jerk his father Macon Dead is. This confrontation shows Milkman that he has completely ruined the relations he had with his family. Anything he has ever had with his father, sisters, and even mother is burned down to the ground. So this essentially means that Milkman is free to travel South in search of gold.
ReplyDelete-Ayan
In my opinion, chapter 9 shows how the Dead family oppresses itself. Although the individuals feel oppressed in different ways, all of the causes relate to others in the family. This is reflected in Corinthians getting a job as a maid to get away from Macon jr. and the rest of her family, and in Lena's confrontation of Milkman, telling him that all he does is oppress the lives of other people. In turn, Milkman is prepared to leave his family in search of the gold because he feels that they have suppressed his true identity. I found it interesting that Milkman's journey is taking him south. In the beginning of the story, there was an apparent theme of blacks moving north to escape oppression. Prior to the police pulling over Milkman, Milkman did not identity with oppression of African Americans by whites. After that incident, Milkman had an epiphany about how he was just another black person in the eyes of white people. I think that Milkman's journey to find his identity takes him south, the center of black oppression, in part because he is acknowledging his place in American society as a black male.
ReplyDelete-Oliver
This chapter is certainly a truimph of the female characters of the book. Pilate seems to be the only clever character during the scene at the police station, and because of that, she retains one her most prized possesions. Lena's rant against Milkman is again a truimph, but it also much more then that. Lena compares Milkman to his father, and at the beginning of the book, Milkman dedicates himself to differentiating himself from Macon Jr. Lena's ruthless exposition of Milkman's decaying character is part of his the reasoning behind his journey towards the south, and I think Morrison chose a perfect time for this trip.
ReplyDeleteThis chapter sets up Milkman's journey to the South in that it makes Milkman question his identity while pushing him away from his family/home. Firstly, Milkman is estranged from his BFF, when he discovers that Guitar is part of a murderous cult (the Seven Days). At the same time, the issue with the tarp and distrust within the family is put to rest with the visit to the jail. placing all of his relations in the Oldsmobile seems to tie up distrust and misunderstandings. With his best friend "gone" and his family not in bitter strife, Milkman's identity is called into questioned. With this estrangement and being the "deep" person he is Milkman easily takes Lena's push to 'get out of [her] room' (216) as a push away from his home to find his or his new identity.
ReplyDelete-Colby
In this chapter, both First Corinthians and Lena try asserting themselves, something they had never dared do before. In their 40's both the women were unmarried, under employed and had had little purpose in their lives aside from serving their family and facilitating Milkman's life. Corinthians stands up for love and realizes she deserves to be happy, even if it is with a "sub-par" suitor such as Porter. Lena is fed up with Milkman's "pissing" on everyone, and lets him know. I think this opened his eyes to the fact that he has nothing to fight for, in fact, earlier in the book he even mentions that there is "nothing worth risking", this inspires him to go to the South and find out what his life is all about, he is taking a risk and asserting his right to know about his family.
ReplyDelete-Lena
This chapter sets up Milkman's journey to the South by giving him the final push. Over the course of the past few chapters, he has become estranged from most of the other characters including Guitar and much of his family. The gap between Milkman and Guitar had been widening for a while due to their differing views on race and money and just about everything, but the news about the Seven Days really pushed it over the edge by further emphasizing the differences between the two of them. In addition, Milkman has been becoming increasingly disconnected from his family, starting very early on in the book. He and his parents are already fairly distant at this point, and now even Corinthians and Lena despise him since he ruined Corinthians's chance at freedom and happiness with Porter due to his involvement in the Seven Days. Lena's speech is the final straw: she has had enough of him and his sense of entitlement, and she only catalyzes what would have happened (most likely) anyway--his departure. At this point, he has, essentially, no reason to stay--no familial ties, no friends--and many reasons to leave, what with his murderous ex/cousin, dissatisfaction and boredom with the city, and a general restlessness.
ReplyDeleteThe primary events of this chapter leading into Milkman's journey south is an estrangement from previously accepted norms. His father (and him by extention) have always looked down on poor black people as lazy and stupid, similar to the views held by white people. He and his family were middle class unlike the vast majority of his black poor neighbors. When the white cop pulls him over without any reason it insiuates that he did so becasue Milkman is black. While a minor incident it is the first step in showing him that even though he thinks of himself as different from other black people, others and specifically white people see him as just the same. He also experiences the horrors of prejudice, something that he often passed on other.
ReplyDeleteThis chapter gives much better understandable explanations about Milkman. It also clarifies what we were starting to believe about him. In this chapter, readers get a greater sense of how Milkman thinks. I think this part is setting up Milkman’s next part of the story, because in this chapter, it’s like everything else seems to have grown away from him. Guitar is done; he lost Hagar, ruined Corinthan’s relatationship, and now Lena hates him. So, I think this is the setting of the story for Milkman.
ReplyDeleteJonathan Oh
This chapter forces Milkman to leave and go to the south because he basically ruins his relationship with most of the characters in the novel. He also realizes the “Guitar could kill, would kill, and probably had killed” (p. 210). This shows the reader that Milkman is scared of Guitar. Milkman’s fear of Guitar is one of the forces which drive Milkman to go to the south, in addition to the loneliness and fear he feels at home. By going to the south, Milkman is able to escape the way he felt after the incident at the jail with Pilate. Milkman “wasn’t sure these details had really happened” (p. 206), because the surrealism of the way Pilate kept her husband’s bones seems to haunt him.
ReplyDelete-Ofir Lebenthal
This chapter informs the reader as to the true character of Corinthians. She holds herself in surprisingly high regard, despite her actual business position. Also, this character reveals a bit about Milkman's nature with his remorse over steeling the tarp holding the bones of the man his father killed. To wrap this marvelous family interlude up, Lena seems furious with him and his nature, making for an overall chapter full of family tension and strange moments, typical of Morrison's writing thus far.
ReplyDelete-JD Nurme
The book started off with Milkman always being the victim, being molested by his mother and distanced from his father, yet this chapter gave readers a chance to take a step back and see Milkman from Lena's point of view when she is yelling at him. The only thing that all the characters in the book can agree on is that Macon sucks, and now it is becoming clear that Milkman is developing into a person more and more like his father every day. In this chapter, both of Milkman's sisters' characters are developed. They are no longer just Magdalena called Lena and First Corinthians. They are given emotions such as love and anger. Their opinions are voiced, and they don't seem as complacent or bland as they were once made to seem.
ReplyDelete-pema
In the ninth chapter Milkman ends up in a vulnerable state that allows him to mentally escape his society go South. When Milkman finds out that the sack was not full of gold but instead full of bones he feels guilty for stealing it form Pilate. He is also worried when he realizes that Guitar has killed before and is capable of killing again. Milkman also sees Porter (First Corinthian's boyfriend) in a car with Guitar and realizes that he is a part of the Seven Days. He reveals the relationship and forces First Corinthians to quit her job. Lean expresses her feelings towards Milkman saying that he has been abusing people his entire life and this leaves Milkman upset. This state of mind allows him to leave and go South to find the gold.
ReplyDeleteUp to this point, most of Milkman's experiences involved discovery – discovery of secrets and views that had existed before in an uncomfortable balance. While the tension brought about by such knowledge – and further strengthened by his foolish boredom and immature conflicting personality – had caused him to swear to move away, he never did. In this chapter, however, there is change. The change is on page 197, when Corinthians turns back to Porter's safety. The book moves from discovery to change. Corinthians' decision destroys the fragile balance of power – a destruction paralleled at presumably the same time at the police station, where Milkman sees his father's pathetically false sense of power and Pilate's cunning abilities exposed. This sets off a cascade of events, and by the end of the chapter, the maple tree has wilted. This shift of power is what makes Milkman want to move away.
ReplyDeleteI think that it's disturbing how easily Milkman decided to go about robbing Pilate -- not easy in the sense that stealing it seemed like a sure-fire thing, but easy in the sense that he didn't really have any reservations until after the fact. At first, the haziness came because he thought his father's idea of gold being in the tarp was fantasy, "I was not to give an unnatural complexity to a simple job... He had simply not believe in it before."(183) However, at Milkman's urging, he acquiesced and they carried through with the thievery.
ReplyDeleteI find it curious then, that despite the relative ease with which we went about procuring the body, he feels a sense of shame and remorse after walking up, "Something like shame stuck to his skin." He even says that the worst shame of all was that towards Pilate, "...Nothing was like the shame he felt for Pilate."(209) But ultimately, I think that because Milkman's desire to be liberated from his father was what compelled him to steal in the first place, it will also guide him in that direction as he seeks to search for the gold down South.
The idea of stealing the green tarpaulin.
First thing is that when Macon Jr. tells
family history
identity