A long chapter that seems to be slowly developing and maybe shifting the book's focus. For your comment on this chapter, see if you can make a connection between two different things that happened in the chapter. What "rhymes" here? Why?
Ruth's visits to her father's grave and Hagar's attemps to kill Milkman are connected. They're connected not only because they both have to do with death, but because they both deal with the loss of the one person that they felt the deepest connection with and "the man for whom she believed she had been born into the world" (127) Ruth visiting her father's grave shows her struggle with accepting his death, for she thought that he was the only person that cared if she lived. Similar to this, Hagar is borken and shattered over Milkman. Because she can't have him, she lives off of his fear when she tries to kill him. She can't follow through with killing him though because she loves him too much and can't deal with actually losing him. Ruth and Hagar's inability to address the fact that they both lost something important shows a connection in their characters in this chapter.
I thought that two things that rhymed in this chapter were the characters Pilate and Milkman. Both seem to be tough, kind and calm, unlike Hagar and Ruth for example. In addition, Pilate tells about her life growing up and about how she has no belly button. Milkman also has something strange about his body, with one leg shorter than the other. These two characters are leaders in the book and keep the ones around them stable. Even when Hagar is trying to kill him, Milkman stays calm, "refusing to look....the fear was gone." (129)
More than once in the chapter, Pilate mentions shoes as something undesirable. The memory of her time living with the preacher and his wife is mostly positive, "except they made me swear shoes" (141). After being displaced several more times, Pilate finds herself making the decision of whether she should continue to wander "or settle in a town where she would probably have to wear shoes" (145). I see a connection between this dislike of shoes and her later rejection of societal norms. While Pilate still upholds the unspoken rules concerning relationships and etiquette, she rejects those mandating physical appearance. She cuts her hair short and allows personal hygeine to take the back burner. Pilate's resistance to shoes dates back to before her defiance of society. It shows that she has always had an underlying resistance to "fitting in." Although it takes her a while to make the concious decision to be a non-conformist, Pilate had always been happier being her own person and had never taken up the acceptable actions of society as her own.
It seems to me that the focus of the story slowly seems to be shifting back to Rith and her daily struggle as the book started. The thing that seemed to rhyme in this chapter are Ruth and Hagar. The two are both thrown into action and deadly thoughts at the idea of having Milkman taken out of thier life. Pilate puts it perfectly, they both think they have the right of possession of Milkman, that he is greatly important in their lives and them to his when really he wants nothing to do with them and really doesn't have much of a role in their lives. Ella MacVeagh
This chapter greatly changed how I viewed characters and events that occurred in chapter four. The information given by Ruth to Milkman about the relationship between her and her father did serve to humanize her actions a bit, but also added to the strangeness of her as a character, what with her drugging Macon in order for him to make love to her. Macon's image is also shaped by this chapter, as his desire to abort Milkman was halted by the fear of a voodoo doll presented by Pilate. I had always viewed Macon as a man well grounded in reality, so this event definitely altered my perception of him as a character. Later in this chapter, the story leans even more towards the supernatural with the possible divine intervention against the murder of Milkman, when Hagar attacks him with a knife in the middle of the night. Each twist this story makes seems to lead more towards the unreal or mystic, and all characters seem to be losing their grounding in reality. -JD Nurme
As we read chapter five, we saw a connection between Ruth and Pilate repeated. When Ruth got pregnant and Macon find out he wanted her to kill the child. At that point, Ruth scared went to Pilate to have her help with this situation. Pilate was able to provide assistance to Ruth and Milkman was born a healthy baby. Years later now, Ruth is coming to Pilate because Milkman is once again in trouble. This time Hagar is trying to kill Milkman because she is passionately in love with him. Pilate is trying to help out her sister-law once again. This is most definitely an interesting connection that Morrison has created.
This chapter introduces some very interesting connections. The main connection here seems to be between Pilate and Ruth, who were previously isolated within the book, but now we know that Pilate has a helped Ruth save milkman in the past and appears to be doing so in the present. At the same time, hearing Pilate's story shows another connection between them. Pilate has lived with a sense of isolation due to her lack of a naval, and feels like no one truly cared about her survival until she had a child. Similarly, Ruth felt like the Doctor was the only one who really cared about her survival, and she also feels isolated. From this i got the sense that Ruth is where Pilate was, and vice versa
One thing that I noticed about this chapter that seemed to come up a lot was how people saw Milkman. It seemed like everyone saw him not as a person but as a representation of something. For instance, Ruth saw him not as a person with feelings, but as a symbol of her triumph over Macon; it was the last time they slept together and she forced him to keep Milkman. Macon also sees Milkman as a possession, something that his wife had and that he wanted to take away from her. To them, he is a field that they are going to fight their battle on. Even Hagar stopped seeing him as a person and more as a possession and that's why, when he leaves her, she tries to kill him; she would rather that than not be able to have him.
Secrets have become a significant motif in Song of Solomon. In chapter five, we see that both Guitar and Ruth have secrets that they will not tell Milkman. On page 119, Milkman confronts Guitar about his unusual behavior and the "funny smoke screens". Guitar does not tell his best friend about what he does at night with the "six old men"; showing that either the two are not very close, or the secret is too much for Milkman to handle. This seems to 'rhyme' with another secret that came out in this chapter concerning Ruth. Milkman catches his mother coming out of the cemetery where her dad is buried, and upon inquiry learns more about the relationship between Ruth and her father and how Macon Dead killed Dr. Foster and wanted Milkman dead as well. It seems that as Milkman gets older he starts to learn more secrets about his family that are so heavy that they must be crippling to his psyche.
The idea of death and if it is wanted or not shifts in this chapter. When Milkman is first waiting for Hagar to come kill him, he starts to think that "the fear is gone" (129) and that he is ready to die because he has nothing to live for. But after another failed murder attempt by Hagar, and meeting his mother in the cemetery he seems to be reconsidering his will to live. Ruth also talks to Pilate about how Milkman was almost killed as a baby because Macon didn't want another child to keep them together, which connects to Milkman's desire to die, since it has been with him since birth.
After reading chapter 5, I found the goings-on in the first 10 pages or so to be very ironic. First, Milkman describes his fear of the fact that it's the "thirtieth day," and "wondering if the ice pick would make him cough." (113) It's apparent a little later that Hagar had been stalking him and trying, unsuccessfully, to murder him for months. He obviously thought this was scary, wrong, and somewhat annoying. Yet, he does the very same thing to his mother just after this episode, when he "waited in the shadows for his mother," and followed her to the cemetery where her father was buried. (121) Yes, one could argue that he was merely trying to find out what his mother was sneaking around for, but Hagar was also just trying to find out why Milkman had left her. It's clear that she could never actually kill him, so in reality the effects of her actions were no greater than those of his actions. Yet, what she's doing is completely nuts in his mind, and two pages later he goes out and does exactly the same thing.
I think the development of Milkman and Hagar is particularly interesting in this chapter, however I would like to refrain from saying that they rhyme because if anything they do the opposite. The two character's personalities seem to have great changed and diverged fromthe previous chapter. In previous chapters, Hagar seemed to be incontrol as the mature seductress, while Milkman was an imature boy who was sexually in expirienced and dependent on Hagar even though he wanted to dump her. In chapter 5 the tables have certainly turned with Hagar as the one dependent on Milkman and with Milkman being a confidant man showing her as the "the parylized women" and him as "the frozen man." (130). The word frozen also serves to show Milkman's harsh disposition. Also Milkman's confidence and power is shown because he "knew that he won." (130)
The only very small things that i see that "rhyme" in this chapter are Pilate and Ruth's mirrored isolation and its effects. Both women talk to their deceased fathers - Ruth visiting her father's grave and Pilate seeing her father appear before her - in times of need. In addition to this, both have felt that they were left to deal with the issues in their lives on their own. Ruth felt that her wealth and accompanying isolation "pressed [her] into a small package", while Pilate's lack of a bellybutton essentially sealed her up in her own box as well. (124) However, these similarities between them are accompanied by the contrast of how each is described; Pilate's height and towering presence is frequently referred to, while Ruth is described as "a small woman" and one whose authority aligns with this.
One thing that seemed to "rhyme" was the motif of geography. Geography plays an important role in both Guitar's and Pilate's lives: for Guitar, it is the basis for oppression and class differences. He gives Milkman a "geography lesson" (115) about everything from the process of growing tea in India to Jesus to the North's relation to the South. For Pilate, her geography book is the one constant thing in her life as people continue rejecting her due to her lack of a navel. As she travels the country and makes dramatic changes in her lifestyle, one of the only things that she keeps from fourth grade to adulthood is a geography textbook--why? I'm interested as to how this theme will continue to develop over the course of the novel: perhaps Morrison will explore the connection between geography and heritage or race.
In chapter five the characters spill out their feelings of the past that they never shown before in the story by connecting it to events that are happening right under their nose. Such as Milkman “Lay(ing) quietly in the sunlight…” (pg 120) waiting for Hagar to come and kill him. Milkmen wants Hagar to kill him “he wanted to escaped what he knew, escape the implications of what he had been told…” (pg 120). That connects him to his past of finding out that his mom traveled almost every day to her father’s grave just to talk to him, she know her father was the only one who “cared… how I (she) lived and there was.. no else in the world who ever did…” (pg 124). That connected to how Pilate helped make Milkman alive she told Ruth Milkman’s mother to put “greenish-gray grassy looking stuff” (pg 125) in Macon’s dinner. This past thought connects to how Hagar wants to kill Milkmen because Pilate helped make Milkman alive, he was her son too. When “Freddie was telling her that… somebody was… trying to kill him” Pilate become devastated
As the book develops and Macon convinces Milkman that Ruth is the "bad" one the reader also grows to despise Ruth. When Ruth tells Milkman that his dad only told him what "flatters" p.134 him I began doubting Macon's credibility. Later on, from Ruth's story we learn that perhaps she is not as morally screwed up as we thought her to be. We see the same pattern with Macon and Pilate. At first we are convinced by Macon's stories that Pilate is irresponsible and untrustworthy. However, after learning about how she helped Ruth to conceive Milkman and then to save him from Macon's many attempts at abortion, we again change our minds and lose faith in Macon's stories.
Two things that rhymed for me were Ruth's visit to the cemetery and Hagar's assassination campaign, because both have to do with death. Death has been a pretty strong theme throughout this book which opened with a suicide, but none of the main characters have died yet. The older characters are probably at least 50. I want to see some fatalities.
Two things that I feel connected were Guitars obvious paranoia, and Milkmans evasion of Hagar. Both people display constant insecurity and fear of being compromised. Guitar and Milkmans attitude are very similar, and have both deffinately rhymed for me in this chapter.
Two events that seemed to "rhyme" were the new understandings Milkman had of people close to him. He learned a lot about Ruth when he followed her to the cemetery and the whole situation that Macon had previously described. He got to see both sides, which gave him further insight into Ruth as well as Macon. The second event was when Hagar tried to kill him and froze with knife above his head. He saw more of who Hagar really is and what she is and isn't capable of. These two events connect the ways that as Milkman grows older, he learns more about the people close to him. -Chloe Fishman
I think the two "rhymes" here are the parallels between Ruth and Pilate. Both are almost criminally misunderstood women with deeper depths than are commonly attributed to them (specifically Ruth). Ruth, who has previously been displayed as weak and petty, shows how she can be scary when someone she truly cares about is threatened (as seen when we get a little insight into her experience with her father, and with protecting Milkman). Pilate, meanwhile, is clearly intelligent, despite being rather uneducated. She has faced horrible oppression in her life (largely due to her navel) but shows how strong she is in defending Hagar and suffering through life with Macon Dead in order to protect Ruth. Both are deeply wounded women, but both are strong as well.
I think the most important developments of this chapter are insights into the females of the book. The mentalities and odd patterns between the three female leads show interesting dynamics and a complexity that I think is summarized at the end. Hagar is crazed by her love. Initially she and Ruth are put at odds. However, Ruth too is and has been crazed by love. Pilate is the mediator, the old wise women, who understands, who cures. The three together are complete, balanced, and sane. Apart their is chaos, loneliness, and a loss of purpose. This is a family connection forming, albeit in an odd way. I think such a connection is what Milkman seems incapable of forming and must learn the process of making. He can't dig deeper and connect, and I think that is the important arch here. ~Rebecca Krane
I think the connecting factor in the book in general is death. We start the book with the man jumping off of the roof and continue to learn about the deaths of three fathers and now we learn about multiple attempts to end Milkman's life from the time he was in the womb to now. The new connection that this chapter made for me was the similarities between Milkman and Ruth. In terms of death, they both seem to be able to look death i the face and not be scared. Ruth says at one point that she has no qualms with death and isn't afraid of it and Milkman exhibits those same feelings when he just lays there and waits for Hagar to kill him. However, I can't tell if Milkman really shares this bravery towards death, like Ruth, or if he subconciously knows that Hagar wouldn't never kill him, so he feels no danger. ~Lily
I found several "rhymes" in chapter five both in the actions and thoughts of the characters. Hagar's crazed stalking of Milkman is suspiciously like his following of Ruth. In fact, both Hagar and Milkman only creepily follow their victim for the same reason, to get information. This brings up a theme of the importance of information, which is initiated when Milkman hits Macon. Another pattern is Milkman's near resignation of life, and how he is actually curious about death, and almost welcomes the occurrence when Hagar shows up at Guitar's window. This reminded me of when Ruth explains her actions on the train ride, because she seems, as always, so defeated that she basically doesn't care for life anymore. Her only accomplishment was Milkman and even he is kind of a disappointment. -Mike W
In this chapter, I thought the revelations and character developments of Ruth and Pilate somewhat rhymed. From the beginning of the book, I "disliked" both of them because I thought they were creepy and crazy, respectively. I realize now that I placed too much trust in Macon's word. This chapter shows a little more from the sides of Ruth and Pilate and we realize that maybe it is Macon that we should be suspicious of. The ongoing theme of death is also amplified. So far in the book there have been two suicide attempts, one successful the other not. Though none of the main characters have managed to die yet, this chapter is much more personal/intimate with the motif of death than the previous chapters in the book. If the trend continues, some relevant blood will probably be shed soon.
In this chapter, both Hagar and Ruth show a immense love for Milkman that determine their actions. While Hagar focuses her whole life on killing Milkman because of her love for him,and Ruth tries very hard at the end of the chapter to confront and suppress Hagar because of her love for Milkman. Both of these women are obviously dependent on the life of Milkman. Furthermore, they are both acting on their own reasons that revolve around Milkman. This depicts both the women as selfish, even though they are acting due to another person. -Oliver Sablove
In this chapter I saw a reoccuring supernatural theme. Hagar not being able to kill Milkman, is connected to Pilate frightening Macon Dead Jr. with a voodoo doll. Another supernatural event in the chapter is when Pilate claims that Macon Dead's ghost is following her. I think this chapter changed the book's focus from being realistic to supernatural. This has personally ruined the book for me because Milkman should've died, but some magic/ random force prevented Hagar from killing him.
I think that rhyme in this chapter is between Hagar and Ruth, but they "rhyme" in contrasting ways. Both of them seem to focus all their efforts and passions on Milkman. Ruth represents love, and Hagar represents hate. Ruth finally opens up to Milkman, revealing more of his troubled past. I found that part of the chapter to be very interesting because it both opened up an awkward confrontation between Milkman and his father, and also accelerates her love for him.
Morrison herself sort of mentions this, but Ruth and Pilate rhyme. Both have similar stories, to some extent. Both have been betrayed by Macon. Pilate is away from him, trying to reconcile. Ruth lives with him, trying to get away. Both talk to their dead fathers. Both admit to putting motherly instinct above all else. They are also both ignorant. Ruth is ignorant because she has only seen the world through the windows of her big house. Her communications with her peers have been about silk stockings. Pilate doesn't know what a navel is. She has only ever read one book. But both of them have a sort of simplicity associated with their respective ignorance. PIlate is free from material. Se is free from money. She is free from the obligations of mundane social manners. But Ruth is free too. She is free from the spiritual commitment PIlate makes to the world. She is free to love or hate, to treat anybody as she likes. Both of the women in Macon's life, different a they are at first, rhyme.
In the fifth chapter the focus of the book seems to shift when Ruth reenters into the plot. I think that in this chapter Ruth and Hagar "rhyme". Both women are fighting for Milkman and feel that they are entitled to him. The intense feelings that both women feel for Milkman is very evident especially when Pilate say that they are fighting for "possession" over milkman Jake Bamberger
I think that in this chapter, Ruth and Macon rhyme. Blinded by their strong feelings (in Ruth's case love for both Macon and Milkman and in Macon's his hate for his wife and unborn child), they are driven to sabotage their partner in their son's eyes. Macon tries to pain Ruth as a sick woman with incestual tendencies and an unsound mind. Ruth tells Milkman that his father is a cold, unloving man, who wished death upon him before he even had the chance to be born. We are given both these stories with no idea wether to beleive them or not. I think that there is truth in them both, but i suspect that as the story goes on, we will be able to paint a more complete picture of the relationships in this family. -Lena
In chapter five, it seems the power struggle between man and woman shifts between generations. With Macon and Ruth, Macon is abusive and strong-minded, making him an obvious option as being the one with all the power. But, with Ruth's trickery and her ability to become pregnant and retain the baby, She is the one with the true power. Teamed with Pilate, Ruth ends up "winning" in the end because she is not only finally seen by her husband again but a mother again too. It is different with Milkman and Hagar. In their relationship, it is Hagar who is harmful and abusive because her heart is broken. She is the one threatening to kill Milkman but it is Milkman who ends up with all the power. As he lies in his bed, Hagar has the perfect opportunity to kill him but instead merely wounds him. The man comes up victorious in this round. I don't know, maybe it's significant in showing that abuse never wins out? That Ruth's bloodline is more powerful than Macons?
The two things that rhymed in this chapter are these two characters Pilate and Milkman. They both are similar:tough, kind and calm, unlike another two characters: Hagar and Ruth. Also, not just their personalities are similar, but they both have weird body appearance; Pirates has no belly button; Milkman also has some weird body part. They both are calm when they face problems.
Two rhymes that I caught on to were Ruth and Hagar's obsessions with Milkman. Its more of a slant rhyme. In chapter five Hagar goes nuts, losing interest in everything but Milkman. She goes crazy when he is not around. This is a little strange how clingy and needy she is of Milkman. Ruth also explains to Milkman her relationship with him, how she breast fed with beyond infancy. This was also a little strange and shows he love for him. Both women have extremely strong feelings for Milkman which rhymes obsessed and creepy. -Jack Corcoran
I find a lot of similarities between Ruth's obsessions with her father/visits to his grave and Hagar's constant attempt to kill Milkman. Both women do what they are doing out of love for the men they are chasing but I'm curious as to why Ruth is much calmer and peaceful whereas Hagar is incredibly violent consistently. It seems that Morrison is portraying all the women in this book as totally crazy. -Bianca Dempsey
At first in chapter 5 I couldn't see any congruences what with the necrophilia and all. However, I could see the one constant between all the stories was topic of death. In the beginning of the chapter, and most notably, there is Hagar who hasn't "missed [trying to kill Milkman] in six months." (118) While this is happening, there is Guitar who (we later find) is involved in a group obsessed with killing to maintain a pseudo-scientific balanced black-white ratio. Next Milkman finds out his mother is obsessed with her dead father (Dr. Foster), and ironically married a "Dead" as well who kill her father. Next Macon Jr. wants to abort (in some people's view kill) Ruth's unborn baby. Moreover, this chapter jumps all over the place, yet seems to be obsessed with death. (It's ironic that Pilate, a person known in history for killing Jesus, is the only one who supports life in this chapter) -Colby
In this chapter I saw striking parallels between all of the women mentioned in the chapter. Ruth, Pilate, Reba and Hagar are all driven by their sexual impulses, or, if not driven, are strongly influenced by them. Ruth equates her relationship (one of slightly sexual nature) with her father with acceptance, someone who gave her "that cared-for feeling" (124). When she loses this at the doctor's death and receives little of it from Macon, she returns to her father's grave. This act, I believe, is out of a sexual impulse. Pilate also equates sexual involvement as acceptance. People do not accept her because she lacks a navel, and the way in which she tries to gain this acceptance is through sexual experience. Pilate realizes that people slept with "armless women, one-legged women, hunchbacks" etc which angers her (148). People can accept those "deformities" but not hers. Reba is also described as "living from one orgasm to another" as if her life depends on sexual acceptance (150). And now we get to Hagar, who used to sleep with Milkman and who, ends once their sexual relationship ends, Ruth realizes, there is "something truly askew in" (138). -Anna
Two characters that seem to be endlessly connected to one another are Ruth and Hagar. For one, they both obviously have very prevalent attachment issues. Ruth can't let her father go, and had a seemingly unorthodox relationship with her father when he was alive, and therefore is struggling to let him alone in his deceased state. And Hagar is struggling to leave Milkman alone, in her deadly quest for his love. She realizes that he doesn't love her half as much as she loves him, granted he loves her at all. So in an attempt to show he angst, Hagar tries many times to kill Milkman. In addition, the two characters are connected because Ruth goes to see Pilate regarding Hagar and Pilate consequently tries to put it in some perspective for Ruth. "Think on it a minute. You ready now to kill her--well, maim her anyway--because she's tryin to take him away from you. She's the enemy to you because she wants to take him out of your life. Well, in her eyes there's somebody who wants to take him out of her life too.." Hagar and Ruth both have similarities in the sense that they cannot give up the ones they love, but they also are having trouble let the same man go out of their lives--Milkman.
There is a ubiquitous theme of secrecy in this chapter, yet in each of the two cases it includes Milkman. The most obvious one is Guitar's insistence on hiding his dubious involvement in a clandestine group "where six old men waited for him."(120) However, Milkman knowingly tells, "You got yourself a secret,"(119) though not precisely sure what this secret entails.
However, with regards to the second secret, the book actually identifies its concurrence when Guitar responds, "That makes two of us."(119) Of course, this second secret that Guitar is alluding to happens to be Milkman's aversion to Hagar, hiding from her at all costs. He even asks Guitar if he can stay at his place. "Can I have the pad tonight?", Milkman asks his friend.
These two concurrent themes of secrecy, the first of Guitar secret group, and the second of Milkman's aversion to Hagar, illustrate this themes omnipresence in chapter 5.
Ruth's visits to her father's grave and Hagar's attemps to kill Milkman are connected. They're connected not only because they both have to do with death, but because they both deal with the loss of the one person that they felt the deepest connection with and "the man for whom she believed she had been born into the world" (127) Ruth visiting her father's grave shows her struggle with accepting his death, for she thought that he was the only person that cared if she lived. Similar to this, Hagar is borken and shattered over Milkman. Because she can't have him, she lives off of his fear when she tries to kill him. She can't follow through with killing him though because she loves him too much and can't deal with actually losing him. Ruth and Hagar's inability to address the fact that they both lost something important shows a connection in their characters in this chapter.
ReplyDeleteI thought that two things that rhymed in this chapter were the characters Pilate and Milkman. Both seem to be tough, kind and calm, unlike Hagar and Ruth for example. In addition, Pilate tells about her life growing up and about how she has no belly button. Milkman also has something strange about his body, with one leg shorter than the other. These two characters are leaders in the book and keep the ones around them stable. Even when Hagar is trying to kill him, Milkman stays calm, "refusing to look....the fear was gone." (129)
ReplyDeleteMore than once in the chapter, Pilate mentions shoes as something undesirable. The memory of her time living with the preacher and his wife is mostly positive, "except they made me swear shoes" (141). After being displaced several more times, Pilate finds herself making the decision of whether she should continue to wander "or settle in a town where she would probably have to wear shoes" (145). I see a connection between this dislike of shoes and her later rejection of societal norms. While Pilate still upholds the unspoken rules concerning relationships and etiquette, she rejects those mandating physical appearance. She cuts her hair short and allows personal hygeine to take the back burner. Pilate's resistance to shoes dates back to before her defiance of society. It shows that she has always had an underlying resistance to "fitting in." Although it takes her a while to make the concious decision to be a non-conformist, Pilate had always been happier being her own person and had never taken up the acceptable actions of society as her own.
ReplyDeleteIt seems to me that the focus of the story slowly seems to be shifting back to Rith and her daily struggle as the book started. The thing that seemed to rhyme in this chapter are Ruth and Hagar. The two are both thrown into action and deadly thoughts at the idea of having Milkman taken out of thier life. Pilate puts it perfectly, they both think they have the right of possession of Milkman, that he is greatly important in their lives and them to his when really he wants nothing to do with them and really doesn't have much of a role in their lives.
ReplyDeleteElla MacVeagh
This chapter greatly changed how I viewed characters and events that occurred in chapter four. The information given by Ruth to Milkman about the relationship between her and her father did serve to humanize her actions a bit, but also added to the strangeness of her as a character, what with her drugging Macon in order for him to make love to her. Macon's image is also shaped by this chapter, as his desire to abort Milkman was halted by the fear of a voodoo doll presented by Pilate. I had always viewed Macon as a man well grounded in reality, so this event definitely altered my perception of him as a character. Later in this chapter, the story leans even more towards the supernatural with the possible divine intervention against the murder of Milkman, when Hagar attacks him with a knife in the middle of the night. Each twist this story makes seems to lead more towards the unreal or mystic, and all characters seem to be losing their grounding in reality.
ReplyDelete-JD Nurme
As we read chapter five, we saw a connection between Ruth and Pilate repeated. When Ruth got pregnant and Macon find out he wanted her to kill the child. At that point, Ruth scared went to Pilate to have her help with this situation. Pilate was able to provide assistance to Ruth and Milkman was born a healthy baby. Years later now, Ruth is coming to Pilate because Milkman is once again in trouble. This time Hagar is trying to kill Milkman because she is passionately in love with him. Pilate is trying to help out her sister-law once again. This is most definitely an interesting connection that Morrison has created.
ReplyDeleteThis chapter introduces some very interesting connections. The main connection here seems to be between Pilate and Ruth, who were previously isolated within the book, but now we know that Pilate has a helped Ruth save milkman in the past and appears to be doing so in the present. At the same time, hearing Pilate's story shows another connection between them. Pilate has lived with a sense of isolation due to her lack of a naval, and feels like no one truly cared about her survival until she had a child. Similarly, Ruth felt like the Doctor was the only one who really cared about her survival, and she also feels isolated. From this i got the sense that Ruth is where Pilate was, and vice versa
ReplyDeleteOne thing that I noticed about this chapter that seemed to come up a lot was how people saw Milkman. It seemed like everyone saw him not as a person but as a representation of something. For instance, Ruth saw him not as a person with feelings, but as a symbol of her triumph over Macon; it was the last time they slept together and she forced him to keep Milkman. Macon also sees Milkman as a possession, something that his wife had and that he wanted to take away from her. To them, he is a field that they are going to fight their battle on. Even Hagar stopped seeing him as a person and more as a possession and that's why, when he leaves her, she tries to kill him; she would rather that than not be able to have him.
ReplyDeleteSecrets have become a significant motif in Song of Solomon. In chapter five, we see that both Guitar and Ruth have secrets that they will not tell Milkman. On page 119, Milkman confronts Guitar about his unusual behavior and the "funny smoke screens". Guitar does not tell his best friend about what he does at night with the "six old men"; showing that either the two are not very close, or the secret is too much for Milkman to handle. This seems to 'rhyme' with another secret that came out in this chapter concerning Ruth. Milkman catches his mother coming out of the cemetery where her dad is buried, and upon inquiry learns more about the relationship between Ruth and her father and how Macon Dead killed Dr. Foster and wanted Milkman dead as well. It seems that as Milkman gets older he starts to learn more secrets about his family that are so heavy that they must be crippling to his psyche.
ReplyDeleteCorey Grill
The idea of death and if it is wanted or not shifts in this chapter. When Milkman is first waiting for Hagar to come kill him, he starts to think that "the fear is gone" (129) and that he is ready to die because he has nothing to live for. But after another failed murder attempt by Hagar, and meeting his mother in the cemetery he seems to be reconsidering his will to live. Ruth also talks to Pilate about how Milkman was almost killed as a baby because Macon didn't want another child to keep them together, which connects to Milkman's desire to die, since it has been with him since birth.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading chapter 5, I found the goings-on in the first 10 pages or so to be very ironic. First, Milkman describes his fear of the fact that it's the "thirtieth day," and "wondering if the ice pick would make him cough." (113) It's apparent a little later that Hagar had been stalking him and trying, unsuccessfully, to murder him for months. He obviously thought this was scary, wrong, and somewhat annoying. Yet, he does the very same thing to his mother just after this episode, when he "waited in the shadows for his mother," and followed her to the cemetery where her father was buried. (121) Yes, one could argue that he was merely trying to find out what his mother was sneaking around for, but Hagar was also just trying to find out why Milkman had left her. It's clear that she could never actually kill him, so in reality the effects of her actions were no greater than those of his actions. Yet, what she's doing is completely nuts in his mind, and two pages later he goes out and does exactly the same thing.
ReplyDeleteI think the development of Milkman and Hagar is particularly interesting in this chapter, however I would like to refrain from saying that they rhyme because if anything they do the opposite. The two character's personalities seem to have great changed and diverged fromthe previous chapter. In previous chapters, Hagar seemed to be incontrol as the mature seductress, while Milkman was an imature boy who was sexually in expirienced and dependent on Hagar even though he wanted to dump her. In chapter 5 the tables have certainly turned with Hagar as the one dependent on Milkman and with Milkman being a confidant man showing her as the "the parylized women" and him as "the frozen man." (130). The word frozen also serves to show Milkman's harsh disposition. Also Milkman's confidence and power is shown because he "knew that he won." (130)
ReplyDeleteinexperienced?
DeleteThe only very small things that i see that "rhyme" in this chapter are Pilate and Ruth's mirrored isolation and its effects. Both women talk to their deceased fathers - Ruth visiting her father's grave and Pilate seeing her father appear before her - in times of need. In addition to this, both have felt that they were left to deal with the issues in their lives on their own. Ruth felt that her wealth and accompanying isolation "pressed [her] into a small package", while Pilate's lack of a bellybutton essentially sealed her up in her own box as well. (124) However, these similarities between them are accompanied by the contrast of how each is described; Pilate's height and towering presence is frequently referred to, while Ruth is described as "a small woman" and one whose authority aligns with this.
ReplyDeleteOne thing that seemed to "rhyme" was the motif of geography. Geography plays an important role in both Guitar's and Pilate's lives: for Guitar, it is the basis for oppression and class differences. He gives Milkman a "geography lesson" (115) about everything from the process of growing tea in India to Jesus to the North's relation to the South. For Pilate, her geography book is the one constant thing in her life as people continue rejecting her due to her lack of a navel. As she travels the country and makes dramatic changes in her lifestyle, one of the only things that she keeps from fourth grade to adulthood is a geography textbook--why? I'm interested as to how this theme will continue to develop over the course of the novel: perhaps Morrison will explore the connection between geography and heritage or race.
ReplyDeleteIn chapter five the characters spill out their feelings of the past that they never shown before in the story by connecting it to events that are happening right under their nose. Such as Milkman “Lay(ing) quietly in the sunlight…” (pg 120) waiting for Hagar to come and kill him. Milkmen wants Hagar to kill him “he wanted to escaped what he knew, escape the implications of what he had been told…” (pg 120).
ReplyDeleteThat connects him to his past of finding out that his mom traveled almost every day to her father’s grave just to talk to him, she know her father was the only one who “cared… how I (she) lived and there was.. no else in the world who ever did…” (pg 124). That connected to how Pilate helped make Milkman alive she told Ruth Milkman’s mother to put “greenish-gray grassy looking stuff” (pg 125) in Macon’s dinner. This past thought connects to how Hagar wants to kill Milkmen because Pilate helped make Milkman alive, he was her son too. When “Freddie was telling her that… somebody was… trying to kill him” Pilate become devastated
As the book develops and Macon convinces Milkman that Ruth is the "bad" one the reader also grows to despise Ruth. When Ruth tells Milkman that his dad only told him what "flatters" p.134 him I began doubting Macon's credibility. Later on, from Ruth's story we learn that perhaps she is not as morally screwed up as we thought her to be. We see the same pattern with Macon and Pilate. At first we are convinced by Macon's stories that Pilate is irresponsible and untrustworthy. However, after learning about how she helped Ruth to conceive Milkman and then to save him from Macon's many attempts at abortion, we again change our minds and lose faith in Macon's stories.
ReplyDelete-Keinan
Two things that rhymed for me were Ruth's visit to the cemetery and Hagar's assassination campaign, because both have to do with death. Death has been a pretty strong theme throughout this book which opened with a suicide, but none of the main characters have died yet. The older characters are probably at least 50. I want to see some fatalities.
ReplyDeleteTwo things that I feel connected were Guitars obvious paranoia, and Milkmans evasion of Hagar. Both people display constant insecurity and fear of being compromised. Guitar and Milkmans attitude are very similar, and have both deffinately rhymed for me in this chapter.
ReplyDelete-Chris
Two events that seemed to "rhyme" were the new understandings Milkman had of people close to him. He learned a lot about Ruth when he followed her to the cemetery and the whole situation that Macon had previously described. He got to see both sides, which gave him further insight into Ruth as well as Macon. The second event was when Hagar tried to kill him and froze with knife above his head. He saw more of who Hagar really is and what she is and isn't capable of. These two events connect the ways that as Milkman grows older, he learns more about the people close to him.
ReplyDelete-Chloe Fishman
I think the two "rhymes" here are the parallels between Ruth and Pilate. Both are almost criminally misunderstood women with deeper depths than are commonly attributed to them (specifically Ruth). Ruth, who has previously been displayed as weak and petty, shows how she can be scary when someone she truly cares about is threatened (as seen when we get a little insight into her experience with her father, and with protecting Milkman). Pilate, meanwhile, is clearly intelligent, despite being rather uneducated. She has faced horrible oppression in her life (largely due to her navel) but shows how strong she is in defending Hagar and suffering through life with Macon Dead in order to protect Ruth. Both are deeply wounded women, but both are strong as well.
ReplyDeleteI think the most important developments of this chapter are insights into the females of the book. The mentalities and odd patterns between the three female leads show interesting dynamics and a complexity that I think is summarized at the end. Hagar is crazed by her love. Initially she and Ruth are put at odds. However, Ruth too is and has been crazed by love. Pilate is the mediator, the old wise women, who understands, who cures. The three together are complete, balanced, and sane. Apart their is chaos, loneliness, and a loss of purpose. This is a family connection forming, albeit in an odd way. I think such a connection is what Milkman seems incapable of forming and must learn the process of making. He can't dig deeper and connect, and I think that is the important arch here.
ReplyDelete~Rebecca Krane
I think the connecting factor in the book in general is death. We start the book with the man jumping off of the roof and continue to learn about the deaths of three fathers and now we learn about multiple attempts to end Milkman's life from the time he was in the womb to now. The new connection that this chapter made for me was the similarities between Milkman and Ruth. In terms of death, they both seem to be able to look death i the face and not be scared. Ruth says at one point that she has no qualms with death and isn't afraid of it and Milkman exhibits those same feelings when he just lays there and waits for Hagar to kill him. However, I can't tell if Milkman really shares this bravery towards death, like Ruth, or if he subconciously knows that Hagar wouldn't never kill him, so he feels no danger.
ReplyDelete~Lily
I found several "rhymes" in chapter five both in the actions and thoughts of the characters. Hagar's crazed stalking of Milkman is suspiciously like his following of Ruth. In fact, both Hagar and Milkman only creepily follow their victim for the same reason, to get information. This brings up a theme of the importance of information, which is initiated when Milkman hits Macon. Another pattern is Milkman's near resignation of life, and how he is actually curious about death, and almost welcomes the occurrence when Hagar shows up at Guitar's window. This reminded me of when Ruth explains her actions on the train ride, because she seems, as always, so defeated that she basically doesn't care for life anymore. Her only accomplishment was Milkman and even he is kind of a disappointment.
ReplyDelete-Mike W
In this chapter, I thought the revelations and character developments of Ruth and Pilate somewhat rhymed. From the beginning of the book, I "disliked" both of them because I thought they were creepy and crazy, respectively. I realize now that I placed too much trust in Macon's word. This chapter shows a little more from the sides of Ruth and Pilate and we realize that maybe it is Macon that we should be suspicious of. The ongoing theme of death is also amplified. So far in the book there have been two suicide attempts, one successful the other not. Though none of the main characters have managed to die yet, this chapter is much more personal/intimate with the motif of death than the previous chapters in the book. If the trend continues, some relevant blood will probably be shed soon.
ReplyDelete-pema
In this chapter, both Hagar and Ruth show a immense love for Milkman that determine their actions. While Hagar focuses her whole life on killing Milkman because of her love for him,and Ruth tries very hard at the end of the chapter to confront and suppress Hagar because of her love for Milkman. Both of these women are obviously dependent on the life of Milkman. Furthermore, they are both acting on their own reasons that revolve around Milkman. This depicts both the women as selfish, even though they are acting due to another person.
ReplyDelete-Oliver Sablove
In this chapter I saw a reoccuring supernatural theme. Hagar not being able to kill Milkman, is connected to Pilate frightening Macon Dead Jr. with a voodoo doll. Another supernatural event in the chapter is when Pilate claims that Macon Dead's ghost is following her. I think this chapter changed the book's focus from being realistic to supernatural. This has personally ruined the book for me because Milkman should've died, but some magic/ random force prevented Hagar from killing him.
ReplyDeleteI think that rhyme in this chapter is between Hagar and Ruth, but they "rhyme" in contrasting ways. Both of them seem to focus all their efforts and passions on Milkman. Ruth represents love, and Hagar represents hate. Ruth finally opens up to Milkman, revealing more of his troubled past. I found that part of the chapter to be very interesting because it both opened up an awkward confrontation between Milkman and his father, and also accelerates her love for him.
ReplyDeleteMorrison herself sort of mentions this, but Ruth and Pilate rhyme. Both have similar stories, to some extent. Both have been betrayed by Macon. Pilate is away from him, trying to reconcile. Ruth lives with him, trying to get away. Both talk to their dead fathers. Both admit to putting motherly instinct above all else. They are also both ignorant. Ruth is ignorant because she has only seen the world through the windows of her big house. Her communications with her peers have been about silk stockings. Pilate doesn't know what a navel is. She has only ever read one book. But both of them have a sort of simplicity associated with their respective ignorance. PIlate is free from material. Se is free from money. She is free from the obligations of mundane social manners. But Ruth is free too. She is free from the spiritual commitment PIlate makes to the world. She is free to love or hate, to treat anybody as she likes. Both of the women in Macon's life, different a they are at first, rhyme.
ReplyDeleteIn the fifth chapter the focus of the book seems to shift when Ruth reenters into the plot. I think that in this chapter Ruth and Hagar "rhyme". Both women are fighting for Milkman and feel that they are entitled to him. The intense feelings that both women feel for Milkman is very evident especially when Pilate say that they are fighting for "possession" over milkman
ReplyDeleteJake Bamberger
I think that in this chapter, Ruth and Macon rhyme. Blinded by their strong feelings (in Ruth's case love for both Macon and Milkman and in Macon's his hate for his wife and unborn child), they are driven to sabotage their partner in their son's eyes. Macon tries to pain Ruth as a sick woman with incestual tendencies and an unsound mind. Ruth tells Milkman that his father is a cold, unloving man, who wished death upon him before he even had the chance to be born. We are given both these stories with no idea wether to beleive them or not. I think that there is truth in them both, but i suspect that as the story goes on, we will be able to paint a more complete picture of the relationships in this family.
ReplyDelete-Lena
In chapter five, it seems the power struggle between man and woman shifts between generations. With Macon and Ruth, Macon is abusive and strong-minded, making him an obvious option as being the one with all the power. But, with Ruth's trickery and her ability to become pregnant and retain the baby, She is the one with the true power. Teamed with Pilate, Ruth ends up "winning" in the end because she is not only finally seen by her husband again but a mother again too. It is different with Milkman and Hagar. In their relationship, it is Hagar who is harmful and abusive because her heart is broken. She is the one threatening to kill Milkman but it is Milkman who ends up with all the power. As he lies in his bed, Hagar has the perfect opportunity to kill him but instead merely wounds him. The man comes up victorious in this round.
ReplyDeleteI don't know, maybe it's significant in showing that abuse never wins out? That Ruth's bloodline is more powerful than Macons?
The two things that rhymed in this chapter are these two characters Pilate and Milkman. They both are similar:tough, kind and calm, unlike another two characters: Hagar and Ruth. Also, not just their personalities are similar, but they both have weird body appearance; Pirates has no belly button; Milkman also has some weird body part. They both are calm when they face problems.
ReplyDeleteJonathan Oh
Two rhymes that I caught on to were Ruth and Hagar's obsessions with Milkman. Its more of a slant rhyme. In chapter five Hagar goes nuts, losing interest in everything but Milkman. She goes crazy when he is not around. This is a little strange how clingy and needy she is of Milkman. Ruth also explains to Milkman her relationship with him, how she breast fed with beyond infancy. This was also a little strange and shows he love for him. Both women have extremely strong feelings for Milkman which rhymes obsessed and creepy.
ReplyDelete-Jack Corcoran
I find a lot of similarities between Ruth's obsessions with her father/visits to his grave and Hagar's constant attempt to kill Milkman. Both women do what they are doing out of love for the men they are chasing but I'm curious as to why Ruth is much calmer and peaceful whereas Hagar is incredibly violent consistently. It seems that Morrison is portraying all the women in this book as totally crazy.
ReplyDelete-Bianca Dempsey
At first in chapter 5 I couldn't see any congruences what with the necrophilia and all. However, I could see the one constant between all the stories was topic of death. In the beginning of the chapter, and most notably, there is Hagar who hasn't "missed [trying to kill Milkman] in six months." (118) While this is happening, there is Guitar who (we later find) is involved in a group obsessed with killing to maintain a pseudo-scientific balanced black-white ratio. Next Milkman finds out his mother is obsessed with her dead father (Dr. Foster), and ironically married a "Dead" as well who kill her father. Next Macon Jr. wants to abort (in some people's view kill) Ruth's unborn baby. Moreover, this chapter jumps all over the place, yet seems to be obsessed with death.
ReplyDelete(It's ironic that Pilate, a person known in history for killing Jesus, is the only one who supports life in this chapter)
-Colby
In this chapter I saw striking parallels between all of the women mentioned in the chapter. Ruth, Pilate, Reba and Hagar are all driven by their sexual impulses, or, if not driven, are strongly influenced by them. Ruth equates her relationship (one of slightly sexual nature) with her father with acceptance, someone who gave her "that cared-for feeling" (124). When she loses this at the doctor's death and receives little of it from Macon, she returns to her father's grave. This act, I believe, is out of a sexual impulse. Pilate also equates sexual involvement as acceptance. People do not accept her because she lacks a navel, and the way in which she tries to gain this acceptance is through sexual experience. Pilate realizes that people slept with "armless women, one-legged women, hunchbacks" etc which angers her (148). People can accept those "deformities" but not hers. Reba is also described as "living from one orgasm to another" as if her life depends on sexual acceptance (150). And now we get to Hagar, who used to sleep with Milkman and who, ends once their sexual relationship ends, Ruth realizes, there is "something truly askew in" (138).
ReplyDelete-Anna
Two characters that seem to be endlessly connected to one another are Ruth and Hagar. For one, they both obviously have very prevalent attachment issues. Ruth can't let her father go, and had a seemingly unorthodox relationship with her father when he was alive, and therefore is struggling to let him alone in his deceased state. And Hagar is struggling to leave Milkman alone, in her deadly quest for his love. She realizes that he doesn't love her half as much as she loves him, granted he loves her at all. So in an attempt to show he angst, Hagar tries many times to kill Milkman. In addition, the two characters are connected because Ruth goes to see Pilate regarding Hagar and Pilate consequently tries to put it in some perspective for Ruth. "Think on it a minute. You ready now to kill her--well, maim her anyway--because she's tryin to take him away from you. She's the enemy to you because she wants to take him out of your life. Well, in her eyes there's somebody who wants to take him out of her life too.." Hagar and Ruth both have similarities in the sense that they cannot give up the ones they love, but they also are having trouble let the same man go out of their lives--Milkman.
ReplyDelete-Jordan Bayer
There is a ubiquitous theme of secrecy in this chapter, yet in each of the two cases it includes Milkman. The most obvious one is Guitar's insistence on hiding his dubious involvement in a clandestine group "where six old men waited for him."(120) However, Milkman knowingly tells, "You got yourself a secret,"(119) though not precisely sure what this secret entails.
ReplyDeleteHowever, with regards to the second secret, the book actually identifies its concurrence when Guitar responds, "That makes two of us."(119) Of course, this second secret that Guitar is alluding to happens to be Milkman's aversion to Hagar, hiding from her at all costs. He even asks Guitar if he can stay at his place. "Can I have the pad tonight?", Milkman asks his friend.
These two concurrent themes of secrecy, the first of Guitar secret group, and the second of Milkman's aversion to Hagar, illustrate this themes omnipresence in chapter 5.